Update (4th July 2014) – Plus ça change … Now that France has lost to Germany at SOCCER, social media is replete with more ‘surrender monkey’ and ‘French surrender’ messages.
Update (14 July 2011): Welcome to one of our most-tweeted articles. It seems everytime the French are mentioned anywhere in the media, legions of lemmings reach for their tweeting apparatus to make rather lame and pathetic “French Surrender” jokes. Be it Strauss-Kahn, Libya, Tennis, Bastille Day, Women’s Soccer.
Our original article from 2009: Pretty much everybody online fancies themselves a comedian; unfortunately most of us are and will remain wannabes. Now that “Eternal September” has hit twitter, legions of newbies clamoring for attention are using the micro-blogging platform to repeat, rehash and retweet their skewed and simplistic view of history and the world.
On average, about a dozen or so anti-French jabs are written on twitter per week, most of them being some form of “French Surrender” joke. While some are deliberately trying to be offensive, others are living proof there is a “long tail” to America’s recent spate of French BashingA few examples from 2009:
- @timchi – “You can try and run over a french bulldog but it would surrender first”
- @asianlunatic – “Mantastic: When ur in France for holiday, the French will surrender to u, just to be on the safe side.”
- @JohnHancock61 – “Great movie line from Flushed Away: Lead French frog: To action! French frog commandos: We Surrender!”
- @Simon4365 – “ahhhh the weekend or as the French say “we surrender”!!!”
- @Hondo11 – “I’ll say it. Pietrus is not only French (known to surrender) he looks strikingly erily to a Primate. FACT”
- @macslash – “It’s nice to hear Serlet attack Windows with a French accent. Would have expected him to just surrender.”
While most comedic outfits have abandoned French Bashing, especially Jay Leno and his forty or so jokes about supposed French cowardice and propensity to surrender, legions of twitterers, bloggers and comment contributors have kept the myth of French cowardice alive.
Having turned a traumatic historical event of epic proportions into a timeless character trait, French Haters have woven prejudice against France and the French into pop-culture.
Thankfully, one of North-America’s most astute international columnists has decided to take the myth of French cowardice and surrender head on. I present to you, Eric Margolis and his column : “Getting to the truth about World War II”. Thank You Eric. Merci.
Here are a few excerpts:
“France’s army did not simply surrender or run away in 1940, as ignorant American Know-Nothing conservatives claim. “
“Britain’s well-trained expeditionary force in France was beaten just as quickly and thoroughly as the French, and saved itself only by abandoning its French allies and fleeing across the Channel. “
“France lost 217,000 dead and 400,000 wounded. Compare that to America’s loss of 416,000 dead during four years of war in the Pacific and Europe.”
Eric Margolis is an award-winning columnist who contributes regularly to the Quebecor Media Company and the Huffington Post. His articles appear in the New York Times, the International Herald Tribune, the Los Angeles Times, Times of London to name a few. Eric Margolis has also appeared on CNN, BBC, France 2, France 24, Fox News, CTV and CBC.
See also: French Bashers hit twitter @ Miquelon.org
@oxo, would you be interested to see the sarcastic list of the names of the 1.3 French soldiers who died in WWI ?
I got hundreds of sarcastic pictures of monuments to the dead in France as well if you’re interested.
How about a sarcastic picture of the the twin towers on fire ? How many Americans does it take to defend a skyscraper ? Don’t know. Never been tried.
You have kids huh ? Are they little xenophobes like their dad ?
[[i tied a my neighbours cat’s tail today and lit it ,neighbour was devestated but the cat was over the moon…….]]
Yeah, the cutting edge of comedy all right…
^^
That’s 1.3 millions if you had any “jokes” in mind
America lost of 400k men in 4 years. That still is less than the 500k Frenchmen that surrended when the Germans captured the Marginot line from the rear SEVEN days. A big shocker here the French built the Marginot line but failed to complete it on the Belgian border. Those HUNS would never be smart enought to bypass the Marginot line by invading Belgium, would they?
Then let’s not start on how many French were more than complicit with the Germans rounding up Jews to send to camps.
Then we have the VICHY issue.
elvis – the points you raise have been dealt with over and over on this site.
In a few words, the point I am trying to make is that mocking the French defeat of 1940 is as offensive to us as making jokes about any national tragedy such as 9/11.
Did France Surrender in 1940? You bet.
Does that make the French cowards? No.
Remember, historical facts do not make character traits.
If you read your history, if you read about the 100 000 men who died in those few days, if you read about the saving of the British Expeditionary Force, the Battle of Lille, you will understand the French were not cowards. The leadership betrayed the country and they were put on trial for that by the end of the war. Imagine that.
About the Maginot line, yes it was not the most brilliant move. Neither was going into Vietnam, Somalia or Afghanistan. All countries have their moments of glory and moments of great defeats and some cases embarrassment. Nobody has a monopoly on any of these outcomes.
About the Holocaust, yes anti-semitism was very prevalent in all of Europe at that time and some French “intellectuals” were very involved in the propagation of those theories (De Gobineau, Maurras…). But America also had its share of issues between the German American Bund, Henry Ford and Joe Kennedy’s open admiration for the IIIrd Reich and Adolf Hitler, the issue of Anti-semitism was widespread in the world at the time. Nobody once again had a monopoly on this scourge.
About Vichy, did you know that America refused to recognize the Free French, those who kept on fighting the war, but recognized Vichy officially? Did you know that when the Free French liberated French islands in North America that Roosevelt and Cordell Hull asked for their expulsion and the reinstatement of the Vichy governors? Of course you didn’t…
Not to mention the CIA helping Nazi war criminals to escape in order to use them in the fight against communism. People like Reinhardt Gehlen, Wehrner Von Braun or Klaus Barbie. Worse than anything Vichy did, in my mind, because by that time, everybody knew the extent of the atrocities committed by the nazis. Wiki “Paperclip”.
American racism does not compare to helping the Germans round up Jews and send them to death camps. Kennedy’s admired the Nazi’s, I have not seen any evidence that suggest he was helping them round up Jews. Those comparisons are like apples to oranges.
I am sure American’s did give deserving Black soldiers their pensions, which is more than I can say for the Algerian’s that fought for France.
You see it’s easy to cherry pick your facts.
Elvis, Oh if you only knew. Remember the Vetern camps in DC in the thirties (they never did get a dime of the $10,000 bonus they were due)? Remember all of the Veterns whose records were “lost” after WWII – mostly minorities? I remember that my brother couldn’t even get a gravemarker because his Naval record had been lost. Personally, I am told that I am due a pension for my injuries, but, the Army had my records burned in St Louis. Yea, the US really cares about its’ Vets!
I am sure American’s did give deserving Black soldiers their pensions,
Care to expand on that ?
Elvis, you wrote “You see it’s easy to cherry pick your facts.” – My point precisely, that’s what you did, so we responded in kind. Historical histrionics gets you knowhere and becomes a vessel for prejudice.
This site is very entertaining. I particularly enjoy the deranged comments of Fred (midwest) whose lack of understanding of British history is staggering.
Apparently, according to this great scholar, the British still resent the French because of the Norman conquest in 1066!!! This is bizarre and wrong on so many levels.
Firstly, it would be wrong to see the Normans as “French”. They spoke French, but were only two generations away from Vikings who had been granted the land of Normandy by the FRENCH king.
The Normans were hardly a beacon of civilization either. They brutally overthrew all the native landowners and completely destroyed one of most sophisticated governmental systems in Europe at the time. Tens of thousands and English emigrated under this repressive regime. If that is French culture then it is nothing much to shout about.
The idea that the Normans “freed” the Celts is absolutely bizarre and makes no sense at all. The ‘Celts’ were dominant in England before the ROMAN CONQUEST and by the time of the Saxon invasions took place in the 4-5 centuries were pushed to the western fringes of the British Isles. I’m not sure how they were freed considering most of them were assimilated into the Anglo-Saxon culture.
The Normans also invaded two Celtic countries Wales and Ireland, how did the Normans, oh sorry, “French” save them. By invading their countries??
To suggest also that there was a transfer of learning from the Normans to the English just shows your lack of knowledge about Anglo-Saxon England.
I look forward to laughing out loud at your next unintentionally hilarious post.
So basically, if two generations ago your family came to the US, you’re not “American”? So much for the melting pot. Double standard much?
The Normans spoke French, had adopted French customs and are REFERRED TO AS “FRENCH” in the Bayeux tapestry. So much for your racist and half-assed theories.
André – You show no understanding of the history of the time.
How were the Normans “French” if Normandy was not then part of France? If was not controlled by France until 1204.
How could the Normans be French if they were not ethically French and did not live in France? Just because they spoke a language similar to French?
You are not making any sense. You cannot live in Canada and claim to be American just because you speak the same language and have the same customs;
Racist?? No, I just understand history.
Typical of the French haters.
Next thing you know the Big M is gonna tell us that Napoleon wasn’t French…
[[To suggest also that there was a transfer of learning from the Normans to the English just shows your lack of knowledge about Anglo-Saxon England.]]
lul what ?
I’ve rarely seen someone flaunt their ignorance in such a blatant way.
Sorry, but you don’t know shit about history. The Bayeux Tapestry refers to your beloved “Normans” as FRANCI: Franks, in English. “Regnum Francorum” — Kingdom of the Franks, or Kingdom of France.
Sone quotes from the Bayeux Tapestry:
“HIC FRANCI PUGNANT.”
“HIC CECIDERUNT SIMUL ANGLI ET FRANCI IN PRELIO.”
So where are your “Normans” now? I’ll give you a hint: there isn’t a single reference to “Normans” in the entire tapestry. So read up before spewing BS. The Normans were ethnically French, they had been assimilated by French culture, spoke French and had adopted French customs.
Barny- Obviously, disagreeing with you means that I hate France. Brilliant reasoning Sherlock. Unfortunately, the dictator Napolean was certainly French. You can keep him.
André – There were indeed some French troops in the Norman army along with Bretons and Flemings. Were the Bretons and Flemings ethically French also? What do you mean by ethically French?
If this was a French army, where was the French king? I believe there was
a king of France at the time.
Normandy was not part of France at the time, it was a vassal state and the references in the Bayeux tapestry (perhaps the earliest piece of political propaganda) may have been inserted for the benefit of the king of France.
Barny – So what great gifts did the Normans give us then, apart from some Norman French words?
And of course, it was defeat to this mighty “French” army that scarred Britain for ever.
How could we ever forgive them? I can’t stop laughing!!!
Is the Big M going to be the new trollie ?
Troll, no one spends that much time on an anti French-bashing blog (of all places) to try and justify French-bashing by bringing up every negative things they can think of about French history if they don’t hav a major axe to grind about the French.
You’re not fooling anyone.
French was the spoken language at the English court for centuries after the Norman invasion. Dieu et mon droit etc… Over 60% of the English language has its origins in French
So when you make statements such as,
[[To suggest also that there was a transfer of learning from the Normans to the English just shows your lack of knowledge about Anglo-Saxon England.]]
you’re making an ass out of yourself and displaying your ignorance for all to see.
You can keep him.
Yeah we’ll keep him and shove him down the throat of all the armchair generals who obsessively mock the French military, which of course you know nothing about.
Barny, I have no argument with you, but I felt I had to reply to the absolute nonsense written by Fred (midwest)
By the way, English owes around 28% of its words to French/Old Norman. This is not really a great transfer of knowledge though. I guess we have to thank you for those words though
[[By the way, English owes around 28% of its words to French/Old Norman. This is not really a great transfer of knowledge though. I guess we have to thank you for those words though]]
It’s closer to 60% and it is a huge transfer.
Even 28% would be enormous.
That’s more 1/4th of the language. That’s not consequent enough for you ?
There were indeed some French troops in the Norman army along with Bretons and Flemings.
I’m afraid you don’t understand — FRANCI is meant to designate THE ENTIRE ARMY. Not ONCE in the ENTIRE TAPESTRY does the word “Norman” appear. Only FRANCI. That means “the Franks”. So unless you can explain why the name French would be used to designate a “small minority”…
Furthermore, you ask “why wasn’t there a French king?”
There was a King of France, but the King of France was a Primus Inter Pares — a lord only slightly above the others. He had his own lands, just like any other lord — in this case, the lands around Paris, the Île-de-France — but he had little authority over the other great lords (dukes, &c.) who saw him as a peer rather than as a boss.
Of course, even though they weren’t under the direct authority of the King of France, these lords were still French. As was William, duke of Normandy.
the references in the Bayeux tapestry (perhaps the earliest piece of political propaganda) may have been inserted for the benefit of the king of France.
Nice try, but the tapestry was made waaaay outside the jurisdiction of the King of France. You understand “King” in a modern way, not in an 11th century way. The king back then was just a slightly bigger lord. He only had real authority in his own lands, and little to no political authority, let alone in others’ duchies. This tapestry was made in Normandy in William’s own jurisdiction. If anything, it was William’s propaganda, certainly not the king of France’s!
Keep in mind, theBigM, that a proper monarchy with a king exerting real authority over his nobility will only start to crystallize towards the end of the Middle Ages, and especially during the Early Modern Age.
The French have been surrendering before the birth of Christ…Gallic times. The reputation is earned. The last time the French won a war they were led by a schizophrenic chick which they promptly burned.
(frenchie?) your comment is inane. Do some reading.
Fred O. – I do not believe poster #71 can read very well at all, but instead parrots what is being told to him/her/it. It’s the usual and obvious temperamental behaviour commonly displayed by all French-bashers. An accurate description of French-bashers would read – historicaly illiterate, condecending arrogance, revulsion of facts, a duty-bound sense of vain-glorification in their own immaturity, very feeble arguementation, highly influential by the last things they’ve seen/heard, a complete disregard for their own integrity, and as always…with one or both thumbs up their collective asses. How can I be offended by people who have yet to stop wearing diapers, whether out of necessity or some perverted fetish?
We have a saying in France (paraphrasing): To be so despised by such a bunch of complete and utter morons, is truely an honor. Brokeback-Mountaineer circle-jerkers…..all of them!
#71
And yet France is the biggest country in Western Europe.
I guess all that land mass was given to us for free by Britain, Spain, Prussia/Germany and all the countries surrounding us and is not the result of 1500 years of warfare.
It’s easier to remain invasion free when your only neighbors have been Canada and Mexico.
Oh wait didn’t the Canadians kick your ass in 1812 ? lol
And I won’t even mention the fact that you people claim credit for winning WWI and WWII single handedly. What a joke.
Conquering a country, deposing its nobility and imposing a language is not a “transfer of knowledge” though is it? It is colonialism.
Opinion is very much divided as to whether the Norman conquest was a positive thing for England. Some see it as the moment when England lost certain freedoms which were never returned and a repressive and greedy Norman nobility was put in place.
England at this point lost its Scandinavian influence and became more influenced by continental European. This is a shame as we can see today that the Scandinavian countries are much more progressive and socially just than most other western European countries.
André – you are wrong in your point about the monarchy. England became a unified country in 927 and had a king (Athelstan) that ruled the entire country. SO England did have a “King of the English” In fact the list of English monarchs starts in 827. It should also be noted that Athelstan’s forces interveaned in France to restore the Frankish line of kings.
Barney – Why would you want to celebrate Napolean? A man responsible for 6 million deaths and re-introducing slavery???
Conquering a country, deposing its nobility and imposing a language is not a “transfer of knowledge” though is it? It is colonialism.
OK.
Go whine somewhere else now.
I’ve read Walter Scott and variou stories about Robin Hood, so I know about how the bad Normans put the poor Saxons into servitude. However, Robin Hood and Ivanhoe (and other saxons) were a bunch of hypocrites. After all, hadn’t they conquered Britain first, displacing the Celts towards Wales, Cornwall and Britanny? In fact, the word for English in breton is “Saozhon”. Says all, doesn’t it?
SO England did have a “King of the English”
You’ve missed the point. there was a “King of the French” as well. The difference lies in what that title implies — the King only had de facto power upon his own patrimonial lands. The gradual consolidation of the monarch’s power over his entire territory is a long and slow process which would last until the Early Modern age with the advent of absolutism.
honestly i love the french people it was merely a joke
Hey no problem, thanks for the comment! 🙂
I’m not sure taking offense at meaningless jokes is the best way to refute the “French = Spineless” stereotype. You risk reinforcing or intensifying the misconception. I understand the point you’re making, but come on. I think most people understand we’re joking about a false notion just for laughs. Sometimes it’s fun to laugh. Give up the thought-police act long enough to try it, and you’ll see what I mean.
The “all Americans are stupid” jokes can get annoying as well, but there’s no point in reprimanding everyone who makes such a comment on Twitter. I just try not to be an idiot and move on.
There’s been a lot of surrender’ jokes today on tweeter, apparently.
@Adam
I’m sure surrender ‘jokes’ are hilarious to you and your American friends.
They are a lot less funny to us French people. It was a humiliating period and a lot of of people died.
What’s the most humiliating, biggest catastrophe in modern American history ?
Please tell us so we can use that to flood the Internet with ‘jokes’.
Gérard – Are you for real? You have read Walter Scott novels and you think you know about England and the Saxons? These were romantic fiction novels written for a mass audience in the 19th century!
I also enjoyed the casual racism, i.e. that saxons are “hypocrites” that’s a bit like saying that the French are “cowardly” isn’t it?
A bit of history also: The Saxons and Angles turned up in the 5th century AD after the Romans left, 5 centuries before the Norman invasion, so the Angles, Saxons and Celts would have had a fair chance integrating by then!
It’s the same thing as the Normans (or French as some people claim) did in England in 1066, but do the English go on about how they were “oppressed” by the Normans? No, they do not.
I assume you must have some Celtic blood as you perpetuate the myths about the Saxon oppression of the “Celts” (whoever they are), which is utter nonsense. Who oppressed the Bretons in France, was that the English also?
You don’t have to dig very deep on this site to find anti-English sentiment do you?
Mes amis français, J’ai trouvé deux bonnes blagues françaises que je veux partager avec vous :
Question : Combien de français faut-il pour défendre Paris ?
Réponse : Personne ne sait, ils n’ont jamais essayé !
Question : Pourquoi trouve-t-il les arbres toute au long de la Champs-Elysée ?
Réponse : Pour que les allemands puissent marcher dans l’ombre !
Vive la France !
Indrid, vos blagues sentent le réchauffé. La 1e fut d’ailleurs racontée par un membre du Congrès américain, un certain Roy Blount qui a eu le culot de se présenter à une soirée à l’honneur du président Sarkozy quelques années plus tard. Un hypocrite de première classe dirons nous.
La seconde blague est fort connue, elle aussi date de la campagne anti-française de 2003 et montre à quel point certains manque de respect à la mémoire. Qu’importe, nous sommes dans un monde d’éternel comiques …
Question: Combien faut-il d’américains dans un avion pour arrêter une poignée de musulmans armés de…cutters ?
Réponse: Personne ne sait, ils n’ont jamais essayé !
Question: Combien faut-il d’américains pour défendre un gratte ciel ?
Réponse: Personne ne sait, ils n’ont jamais essayé !
You don’t have to dig very deep on this site to find anti-English sentiment do you?
Any guess as to what might have caused this anti-English sentiment ? Think wisely.
Pour notre “ami” Indrid Cold, qui a tant d’humour,
Question: Combien de avocats sont mort en 9/11?
Reponse: Pas assez.
Question: Pourquoi la marine naval US a Pearl harbor ont ils des vitrines dans les coques de leurs navires?
Reponse: Pour mieux voir les navires de l’ancien marine naval US a Pearl Harbor.
Allons, nous allons tous rigoler ensembles.
Barney: I have no idea what causes some of your contributors anglophobia. But I will try and guess.
Is it the fact that thousands of British and Commonwealth soldiers lost their lives liberating France?
Is is the fact that we sheltered the “Free French” leader De Gaulle in London during the war only for him to later veto our membership of the EU?
Is it because we lost one million troops in the first world war fighting in France, on France’s side?
Is it because we were not defeated by Napoleon?
Who knows? But the roots of anglophobia lay deep. In fact, they probably date back to 1338 when Philip VI of France issued the Ordinance of Normandy which called for a second Norman conquest to “destroy and eliminate the entire nation and the English language”.
As for those with supposed “celtic” ancestry – I imagine they are clinging to some kind of notion of victimhood, initially based on readings of history that have been more or less been disproved, i.e. the angles and saxons wiped out the Britons, etc. This has now been proved as incorrect. How could 200,000 angles, saxons and jutes wipe out 3-4 million britons?
It has also now been shown by recent DNA testing in the British Isles that the whole “celtic” thing is more complicated than initially thought. In fact, parts of England are just as “celtic” as southern Scotland and the dominant DNA in the Welsh and Irish is pre-celtic rather than Celtic.
So England is just as much a celtic country as Scotland or Ireland.
It should be remembered that it was the Norman (or French, according to some people here) kings who first invaded Ireland not the “Saxons”. But I suppose that won’t stop inane comments about how “evil” the saxons were to the “Celts”
Barney: I have no idea what causes some of your contributors anglophobia. But I will try and guess.
You have answered your own question in your little rant below.
But not in the way you’re thinking.
I see there’s been a lot of twitter and otherwise hate lately.
No matter what the circumstances are, a handball at a football game shouldn’t be enough to warrant this much hate.
Don’t be so apologetic about it, miquelon.
The people who insult us over this are the same people who insult us over pretty much anything anyway.
Francophobia is a real disease among English-speaking countries.
That is the real disgrace here.
The apology about Henry is to initiate dialog. I’ve notice, with the Irish (of which I am a member of diaspora) – that there are ten times more sincere apologies than from Americans.
The “surrender meme” has been transported accross the entire “anglosphere”, from the US to Britain, to South Africa and now Ireland. The “long tail” I often refer to is not only long – but wide.
We’ve inspired Incessant Ranting’s latest podcast, available via iTunes. Worst faux-French accent ever, somewhere between Borat and Jackie Mason.
^^
Is that AtheistNation person bashing the French in his podcast as well ?
Yes I am bashing them in my podcast as well. Not in any serious way though. Glen Beck is serious. I, as always, was fuckin’ around. Hope to have Miquelon on the show this week. Oh and sorry about the accent, no one should have to suffer through that. (@atheistNation)
#94
Yeah, yeah you’re a great humanitarian.
I listened to your podcast, AtheistNation, and what you did was pretty lame. All you did was rehash crappy old stereotypes and jokes to pick on a guy who wasn’t even there to answer back. Miquelon certainly isn’t anti-American, and yet that’s what you were basically pushing for the first five minutes. Why don’t you grow a pair and invite him over to your show?
Miquelon is anti-American now ?
What a load of BS.
Americans routinely “joking” about the French being cowards, smelly etc is A- OK but French people taking offense at being called cowards (practically on a daily freaking basis) is for some reason anti-Americanism now ?
Once again the French-haters and their ilk show us what a bunch of hypocritical morons they really are with a God complex to boot.
Apparently, they feel entitled to shit on anybody with total impunity but cry bloody murder if we dare do the same thing in return.
Today, two more French soldiers were killed in A-stan. The Taliban and the anti-French Americans are rejoicing.
[…] nice link Miquelon.org – The Fighting French » About That “French Surrender” Thing .. brought to me by miquelon on Twitter. March 4th, 2010 by Temple Posted in URLs | No Comments […]
What is it about the English that causes them to be so ‘unsufferable’? That question has been asked by most people of the nations of the world. If you travel thru certain states of the U.S. –those known to have been heavily settled by these people, the presence of roadside litter might serve as the indicator of their progeny; or, ‘something lacking’ in their make-up. The effect of the English on others not of their kind is also remarkable as an indicator and for this we can take a look at the Ulster Irish and how they view themselves in relation to their blood cousins, the Dublin Irish. This association, English and Northern Irish, has caused the latter to become most proud; i.e., defining himself as most superior –in fact, not wanting to have anything to do with that long-ago cousin. The English mein of superiority is shown to have been ‘rubbed off’ here and there is no other way to look at it ! A person might say: If you wish to perfect an Irishman (Celt) he must adopt English ways and attitudes. Need we be reminded of the cult-figures a la Bond, etc.
To the Big M: Your comments sound like those of ‘a Celt on the make’, sucking up in what has to be the sorry pathway to advancement.