Educating Jay – EmotionFilmsLtd © 2009.
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More about Educating Jay
- Jay Leno and the Tonight Show – Collected anti-French materials.
- Adieu Jay – You called my people cowards on a nightly basis for years based on your skewed perception of events in World War II and your willingness to please the Bush administration before and during the Iraq war.
- Re: James Douglas Muir Leno
- Jay Leno’s French Obsession – Is Jay Leno afraid of the Consul General of France? First, let’s deal with his latest anti-French monologues. Before losing his writing team to the WGA strike, Jay Leno could not reign in his obsession with the surrender of June 22nd 1940.
Wow, it looks great, Marc.
I’ve been waiting for this for a while. When is it coming out ?
You truly are a great Frenchman, sir.
To Marc:
This man, Jay, Should have gotten a fist in the face for his “jokes” –it does work wonders in effecting a change in habits; moreover, any charges levied against the attacker would have mitigating circumstance. It is because the French remain passive to bashing that offences occur, time and time again !
Bravo Marc! I can’t wait to see the video (I can’t now because I’m at work). I would like to give Jay Leno a bloody nose and two black eyes.
I don’t know that concentrating on Jay is totally correct. I like what Marc did, but, most of what comics say are written for them. Were the thoughts his or did he simply go, as is likely, with a writer’s idea that would appeal to the mob. As few comics as I know, I do hear that most of them go more often with their writers’ hunches rather than their own, especially if the writer has a track record of getting laughs. Just saying.
@ Marc. Congratulations for this nice video!
It takes time and patience to achieve that sort of thing. I do hope this will be an eye opener for some people.
@ Fred (Orth) : I ‘technically’ concur with you. However the main issue here is sad prejudiced jokes become character traits with the help of talented anchormen. They/their writers might know better, or their sole concern might be television audience, but what about the average viewer?
For I can’t believe Jay would have used these jokes had he felt just a hint of guilt/doubt/fear about them. He decided to use the jokes, he took responsibility for it, no matter who wrote them in the first place. Does it mean the jokes were pretty commonplace in his opinion, now this would be real prejudice.
Have a great day everyone!
Jocoul, Of course you are correct. The problem is that a joke referencing Niger, India or any multitude of nations would not have acheived any laughs, just stares of confusion. It is prejudice that is the core of a lot of Jay’s jokes. It always stems for a lack of knowledge by the audience and the jokers take advantage of it. Insults directed at Canada and Mexico are the common thrust today. California gets insulted in the South, New York is insulted in the Midwest. Comedians depend upon their audience not thinking about the consequences of their jokes and, unfortunitely, they are often wrong – like in this case. What Marc is doing is ethical and correct, but if the “sound bits” warrent, a comedian will keep on going.
Jocoul : I do hope this will be an eye opener for some people.
If you think this is an eye opener than you surely don’t know much about what goes on outside the USA despite your many discussions with non-Americans which are according to your own words "open discussion, freed from cliches, prejudices and taboos."
In Europe jokes based on ethnic stereotypes are plenty and much worse, not to mention jokes based on stereotypes of Americans are plentiful.
You should ask your German managers what they call Poles in Germany ……ever heard of any "car thieves" jokes from your German friends?
Prehaps those discussions with your many European friends are not so free of taboos and cliches as you think.
Fred O. The problem isn’t jokes. Comedians can joke all they want about France, there’s plenty of material available.
It’s just that those surrender jokes are particularly vile because of the hundreds of thousands of French deaths last century (military and civilian).
And furthermore they are a complete fabrication of history for anyone who has studied up a little bit on the true military history of France. Which neither starts nor ends in June 1940.
When Jay Leno says that the French Resistance was a myth, is he still joking ? Frankly I don’t think he is. Which leads one to wonder if he truly believes the French are cowards. In which case his surrender “jokes” become something else entirely.
#7
Dammit. I thought we had gotten rid of that [tos3] troll.
Go spew your nonsense somewhere please.
Sharon – yes there’s plenty of American stereotyping in Europe as well, the big difference is that it is not targeted at wide audiences by mainstream media (FoxNews etc…) or for entertainment (Jay Leno etc…).
Barney, I agree with you completely, but, other than Marc’s approach, I don’t know how you stop this until it, as always, runs out of steam and is no longer thought of, by some, as “funny”.
Sharon, I was born and raised in Europe, I know what’s going on there and I already stated that there are things I’m obviously not proud of.
Now you may like to read posts 8 and 10 again, they clearly explain what’s so specifically twisted with French bashing. The latter being the core topic of this blog, as Barney cared to remind you countless times.
Jocoul, Europe is a continent. I presume you were born and raised in a particular country in Europe.
That said Europe is too big, complex with countless regional differences so you may not be aware of the “specific twisted” bashing of Gypsies, Turks, Arabs that goes on in certain European countries which is far worse than any French bashing one would see on Jay.
So there is nothing specifiically twisted about French bashing….believe it or not there is much worse . So is there nothing “specifically twisted” about the common ethnic slurs against Poles as “car thieves” in Germany given that millions of Poles died as a result of Germany aggression in WW2? After all that the was the logic used in the French case.
FrancisK: big difference is that it is not targeted at wide audiences by mainstream media
You have to know SEVERAL European languages to make this judgement. One has to know the native tongue to know what is commonly said in the mainstream media.
^^^^
Voila
The troll is gonna hijack another thread with its out of topic nonsensical crap.
And you gotta love the not so subtle justification of French-bashing too, which by the way has always been the troll’s true purpose since it got here.
What a waste of air that troll is.
@Barney, can you tell us the racial slurs for Arabs in France……don’t you find that particular twisted given how hundreds of thousands of Arabs suffered and died during French imperial rule?
sharon, the term Arab is incorrect and shows ignorance about the immigrants in France. Try learning the differences that exist between berbers, north-africans, algerians, moroccans, tunisians … “Arab” is as generic and offensive to some as “Eskimo”.
While on the subject, there is no prime-time comedy show where anti-anything jokes are told day in day out. There are no news channels dedicating to vilifying a people, culture or country.
How many French TV channels can you name? How many French media personalities can you name? How many French TV shows can you name? How many French newspapers do you read, how many French radios shows do you listen to?
@Marc, no doubt you know more about French media than I but others who also pay attention to the French media have a very different view…….
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1574817,00.html
…..French variant is altogether more toxic. The latest outrage came from second-string TV personality and self-appointed social commentator Pascal Sevran, whose recently published book included the obscenely racist idea that the “black [penis] is responsible for famine in Africa
Sevran’s prurient opinions are but the latest addition to the growing racist chatter in the French mainstream
A month earlier, a Socialist political kingpin in the Montpellier region sparked fury — and possible expulsion from the party — by lamenting that France’s national soccer team fielded “9 blacks out of 11” starting players. “I’m ashamed of this country,” in which “the whites are lousy,” he groused, and would soon be fielding teams “where all 11 players are black.” That echoed a comment a year earlier by philosopher Alain Finkelkraut, who — seeking to explain the 2005 rioting by youths descended from immigrants in France’s suburbs — made allusion to France’s “white-black-Arab” soccer side that won the 1998 World Cup and became an icon of French social integration. ” Today, [the team is] black-black-black, and it’s the laughingstock of Europe,” Finkelkraut complained.
Even some black Frenchmen have joined the bigoted chorus: In November, the black comic known as Dieudonn頭ade a conspicuous appearance at the annual congress of Jean-Marie Le Pen’s National Front party — much to the pleasure of extreme-rightists looking to lose their racist stigma without changing their xenophobic positions. For the last two years, the self-described leftist Dieudonn頨ad outdone even Le Pen in Jew-baiting, delivering a series of brazenly anti-Semitic remarks, belittling the Holocaust and depicting Jews as racist persecutors of blacks and Arabs.
The rising torrent of racist language and publicly expressed racist attitudes may be a sign less that racism is spreading, than that the boundaries of mainstream tolerance are changing.
Clearly, the political “filter” in the U.S. public square that prompts a Michael Richards or a Mel Gibson to grovel apologetically following publicly recorded racial insults is considerably less developed in France
France rejects affirmative action as incompatible with its republican ideals of color-blind equality for all citizens. Nice in theory, but that’s not working in practice: discrimination continues, inequality is rife, and notions of color-blindness don’t square with the rising chorus of racially loaded commentary. Color-blindness may also function to keep France blind to racial discrimination and inequality, but the rising tide of anger in the projects and racist chatter in the mainstream suggests that the French may soon have no choice but to openly confront what color-blindness prefers not to see.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1574817,00.html
***********************************************************
What was all that about no mainstream media in France & Europe vilifying an entire culture, peoples ? ? ?
@Barney, can you tell us the racial slurs for Arabs in France……don’t you find that particular twisted given how hundreds of thousands of Arabs suffered and died during French imperial rule?
Sorry, troll.
The subject of this thread is Marc’s upcoming documentary about educating Jay.
If you wanna discuss ethic slurs for Arabs in France or racism in France I suggest you visit fuck*france.com or no pasaran.
Ans sorry but Marc I won’t be participating to your blog anymore as long this anti-French troll is allowed to hijack every thread it wants with total impunity.
I don’t come to miquelon.org to “argue” the French bashing apologists and otherwise haters I have to confront anywhere else.
You got two choices with trolls. a) Ban them or b) ridicule every single of their fallacies with researched arguments. Any other choice is a victory for the troll who can get its message across.
b) being a little too time consuming for my taste given the amount of crap trollie is spewing here.
Exactly my point. Dieudonné is now banished from the media.
Others have been excluded as well or seen their political lives shortened.
Next.
What was all that about no mainstream media in France & Europe vilifying an entire culture, peoples ? ? ?
Sharon, this article you provided is for the most part (painfully) accurate IMO, however it does not address what Marc wrote (there is no prime-time comedy show where anti-anything jokes are told day in day out. There are no news channels dedicating to vilifying a people, culture or country). Why?
-The late Pascal Sevran was like a true institution to the elderly with his show “La chance aux chansons” but he was despised by many people because of the stupid prejudiced remarks he sometimes included in his books (the “black penis” idiocy was part of one of his last publication, and it was noticed by an outraged journalist who spread the news). Pascal Sevran, unlike Jay, did not utter these words during his show. His BS was not forced on everyone. Had it been the case, no doubt he would have been fired right away, regardless of his track record of huge television audience. The latter being the reason why he eventually was retained, despite of harsh discussions within his channel managing board (alas, money comes first).
-Dieudonné used to be a renowned and much appreciated stand up comedian (especially during his early career with his counterpart Elie: Elie was the Jew, Dieudonné was the black guy, and the team would blow apart cliches in a deliciously non politically correct manner). A couple years back, Dieudonné turned into a spooky radical political leader, embracing both (if that is ever possible) extreme left and right paradigms, making bleak jokes on whatever controversial topic. Shocked reactions will make him high. BUT several court rulings forbade him to carry out shows because of this sickening attitude. He still is banned on a regular basis, and most shows that did take place were welcomed with hostile protests. He more or less bypassed these hindrances by creating his own stand up place in Paris where he can rant and provoke (he invited a (in)famous holocaust denier there). His counterargument for all this mess is freedom of speech.
However one can notice that he does not access mainstream media, or when he does he’s a foil for the anchorman (television audience is first once again).
-Alain Finkelkraut or other prejudiced public figures : indeed there is underlying racism in France, among both the elites and the ‘rank and file’,
nobody here is arguing this. But mainstream media merely spread these sad comments (as is their mission), they don’t indulge in them or make these comments theirs, unlike J.
The rising torrent of racist language and publicly expressed racist attitudes may be a sign less that racism is spreading, than that the boundaries of mainstream tolerance are changing.
I would draw the same conclusion. Another brilliant reason for this blog to exist. We surely do not want to follow J’s example.
Sharon, you are entitled to be argumentative but we’re well aware of most “European baggage” you come up with. There are indeed other forms of prejudices on this planet, worse forms too as you stated it, and you or I could find countless examples. Thing is Marc decided to fight French bashing. Maybe you’re not interested.
Barney, banning sharon would only prove her deepest held obsession about our lack of openess. While I understand your position, and trust me .. I DO … at the same time sharon is forcing us to craft our position more acurately.
As well, watching her go down in flames in thread after thread only conforts me in the fact we are on the right track. So I will not ban sharon at this point as no TOS violation is evident save the constant trolling.
It’s the gift that keeps on giving 🙂
Jocoul – excellent rebuttal.
Let’s get this back on track. Why Jay Leno you say?
Well, first off, I am convinced Jay holds these beliefs. Sure his writers supply him with the material, but Jay is a true professional in the sense he does most of his work and never ever stops. For that he is admirable. The quality of his work however remains controversial and that’s where we enter.
Not only does he believe this, he’s made some very offensive during a press interview – not a monologue – about the French resistance.
The other reason I focus on Leno is he is the GEN-POP actor of French Bashing. Howard Stern, Dennis Miller, Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck all have clout, all have huge audiences, but they are all politically inclined or marginal in reach beyond their core listeners. Leno on the other hand has a huge swath of influential listeners.
Jay is the propagator of the surrender meme. With more than 40 jokes on the subject, he is responsible – beyond Goldberg, beyond the Simpsons – for the acceptance of this myth. Thus, our attempt to educate him.
No dates yet on the release, I have a number of people working on this for very little pay …
That which is most galling to Americans of French extraction re French bashing is the ignorance, disregard and open hostility being demonstrated against one of the three major players [ France, England, Spain ] in the founding of this country. You can visit Yorktown and come away with an appreciation for France’s spilt blood; however, it would seem that less-distinguished-present-day-stock (the least involved by country involved) must of neccessity tear down that spilt-blood image lest their “short-coming” remain so self-evident. The Irish, among others, would have it that they are the all-American boy, Jack Armstrong; but, we know they arrived on the scene at a time when everything had been “accomplished”. So I would say get off of it, scion of Cheddar Man, and find satisfaction elsewhere.
[[Barney, banning sharon would only prove her deepest held obsession about our lack of openess. While I understand your position, and trust me .. I DO … at the same time sharon is forcing us to craft our position more acurately.
As well, watching her go down in flames in thread after thread only conforts me in the fact we are on the right track. So I will not ban sharon at this point as no TOS violation is evident save the constant trolling.
It’s the gift that keeps on giving :-)]]
Yeah, you’re right.
I may have overreacted.
[I may have overreacted.]
No, you gave me an opening to state my case 😉
Barney : If you wanna discuss ethic slurs for Arabs in France or racism in France I suggest you visit fuck*france.com or no pasaran.
I had no idea you were living in a dictatorship, so sorry for thinking that France was an open democratic society where its ills are discussed in the open like every other democratic country.
I can now understand why you are obsessed with censorship by hurling your favorite words Troll and especially Ban, poor thing you are unused to open discussions.
So the Irish are now bashed for not being so petty and small minded unlike certain other people who can’t let go of what happened centuries ago. LOL
[[I had no idea you were living in a dictatorship, so sorry for thinking that France was an open democratic society where its ills are discussed in the open like every other democratic country.I can now understand why you are obsessed with censorship by hurling your favorite words Troll and especially Ban, poor thing you are unused to open discussions. ]]
Do you have something to say about Marc’s upcoming documentary about educating Jay Leno or not, you [tos3] troll ?
Sharon, if your tone were not so wantonly provocative and blatantly trollish you’d be most welcome. Obviously, you are merely debasing the concept of free speech — as most trolls do — by not understanding the basic rules of free speech, which apply in all democratic countries. “Free speech” isn’t a valid excuse to insult, harass or slander. So, sorry, stop hurling the words “censorship” and “dictatorship” around, or you’ll only make a greater fool out of yourself.
In this case you are clearly intentionally disrupting the flow of debate, provoking through slanderous and malicious posts, and generally engaging in a behaviour known as trolling on the internet.
Mark, my vote goes to apply the full weight of the ToS’ clauses against trolls upon this superb specimen of trollery.
The same old story…hurl false accusations one after another. Another person who cannot bear to see unflattering facts presented. Some people definitely crave to censor people by hurling false accusations..must have something to do with the fascist mentality one can find in some Europeans. It is so obvious that the fascist mentality that produced fascism in Europe did not die out after WW2. And please note that just beacause one’s grandparents fled from fascist attacks does not mean the fascist mentality was absent from the country they fled to …and no doubt were influenced by it without realizing it.
#31
Troll. Do you have something to say about Marc’s upcoming documentary “Educating Jay” or not ?
@Jocoul : there is no prime-time comedy show where anti-anything jokes are told day in day out. There are no news channels dedicating to vilifying a people, culture or country
You are of course referring to the USA. Being a consumer of US media daily, I don’t see any comedy show with day in day out attacks on the French. Neither do I see any news channels "dedicated" to French bashing. Oh yeah Fox news you may say…but that.is not a channel dedicated to French bashing…I hardly hear anything about the French in Fox news except once in a while . The vast majority of its news hours are devoted to non-French issues. It is accurate to say Fox news is dedicated to Obama bashing as most of its hours are devoted to Obama. Period .
Why the need to exaggerate by using words like "day in day out" and "dedicated".
If you spoke more accurately and gave up the gross exaggerations, than you might be surprised by how many people might agree with you but with the need to exaggerate and paint some exclusivity about French bashing as "specifically twisted" which is nonsense, you are losing any valid points you might have.
@ Miquelon : Dieudonné is now banished from the media.
Oh just like Jay who longer hosts the show anymore?
Marc, Got my audio back (it comes and goes, whenever), I REALLY liked your video! If you came down US66, though, you should have hollered, I’d have bought you a meal. This blog has reminded me of the bashing that Jay “provided” for so many years, though, after his first one, I stopped watching him. Missed the worst. Hats off to you for providing a select driven focus on a select issue. Great Job.
Guess not….
you are losing any valid points you might have.
Hilarious coming from trollie.
Leno will be coming back soon in prime time. His show will get even more viewers now.
Let’s hope he has learned a thing or two.
Barney, has it ever occurred to you that your bile and venom may contribute towards French bashing in the Net at least ( unintentionally )by living up to all the crude stereotypes perpeutated by Jay.
People like you are the "gift that keeps giving" for Jay to keep on peddling his jokes.
OK Sharon, here’s your previous post, condensed:
Bla bla bla censor bla bla bla fascist bla bla bla fascism bla bla bla fascist fascist bla bla bla.
As any impartial observer may notice, your post is rich in fail. I comment on your trollesque behaviour, you respond by calling me a “fascist”, and by making a ridiculous extrapolation about alleged “fascist mentalities” in Europe. I summon Godwin’s law: he who calleth his opponent a nazi in a web debate, loseth the debate.
And now, people, please cooperate: Don’t feed the troll.
#38
Dear troll,
Miquelon.org is a website dedicated to documenting and denouncing French-bashing.
Do you get that ?
So the Germans hate the Poles. Let the Poles create their own website to fight Polish-bashing then.
This blog is about French-bashing.
If you can’t stand that, get some help but stop wasting our time.
And why the hell would I be nice to people who come here solely to bring up negative facts about France and who try their damnedest to justify French-bashing ?
Obviously, the people who are into that sort of thing already have their own issues with the French.
Oh wait let me guess. You’re actually a great francophile, right ? lol
I hope you realize you’re not fooling anyone, troll.
And if that makes you hate the French evn more. Good. If people like you hate us, then we’re doing something right.
ps:
Now Troll, do you have something to say about Marc’s upcoming documentary “Educating Jay”, the topic of this thread, or not ?
Andre what exactly is troll behaviour….pointing out inaccuracies, exaggerations etc. I rest my case about the fascist mentality.
To Sharon @ Post # 28:
You are not turning things around as you might imagine in extolling–by default– a supposed forgive and forget excellence to be found in the Irish. You have mentioned your Irish-ness; therefore, you should be showing no “covert” malice –especially against the French, in your French bashing. Why not go against the English, a nation that has bloodied you people a million times over. As I said earlier, you have taken on the role of [term removed]* with the Anglosphere being your patron; or, the all American girl —anything to escape the Irish-ness
(what, after all, have the Irish ever done on the world stage in history ?).
In your post #28 is seen definite game-playing — so tricky, your word play — being all the same the work of a dumb broad that would hold in delusion a notion that others cannot see thru you. Can you not broach something on your own that is an original thought or concept ? My God, lady, get a life.
@Freddy the Brit basher :
I think you are projecting your mentality onto me.
I don’t see myself as Irish, I see myself as a citizen of the country of my birth where I was raised. You on the other hand seem to identify with your ancestory more than the country you are a citizen of. You are entitled to do so but don’t project that mentality onto others. So your insults about the Irish have no impact on me. It would, if like you I identified with my ancestory more than my country of citizenship but I don’t….so sorry !
By the way thanks for introducing me to words like “court jew” etc, I had never heard words like that before. And again this shows the difference between your neck of the woods and mine… .. need we say more about why I don’t hold any grievances for what happened centuries ago which no doubt drives British bashers like you to the loony bin.
By they way, I noticed that the Irish, Jews and Brits have all been targets of your nasty insults ….while you howl and scream about French bashing. Does the word hypocrite ring a bell?
“One has to know the native tongue to know what is commonly said in the mainstream media.”
I was born and raised in France and I’ve lived in the US for over 20 years. I think that makes me sufficiently knowledgeable in telling the difference. Mind you, I have told many individual Frenchmen before not to generalize their views of Americans but never have I seen such a degree of odious clichés and insults about “the French” than on the US mainstream media and I thank Miquelon for exposing that. There is simply no equivalent in France that I know of to the Jay Lenos, Bill O’Reillys and company. And speaking of the UK, notice the pass they’re getting in regards of the Megrahi release scandal. Just imagine if Sarkozy had been behind the affair, it would be sheer hysteria again.
@41
Sharon asketh:
Andre what exactly is troll behaviour….pointing out inaccuracies, exaggerations etc. I rest my case about the fascist mentality.
André replieth:
In this case, young failhopper, you may find Teh Wiki to be of great help. To quote Teh Wiki, a troll is
someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]
Sounds just like yourself if you ask me.
Oh, as for the renewed fascist reference, you’ve just enabled me to summon Godwin’s Law once again.
You really need to brush up on your debating skills.
@Sharon#33
Nice chitchat, next time try to quote things I wrote though.
Congratulations, trollie.
You have managed yet again to hijack another thread with your whining about…what is is this time ? I can’t even tell. It doesn’t matter.
What matters is that nobody’s talking about Marc’s trailer anymore. You have succeeded. You’re a great troll indeed.
Let me take this opportunity to ask you again:
do you have anything to say about Marc’s upcoming documentary 3educating Jay”, which is the topic of this thread ?
@Jocoul
Likewise but I hope you develope some critical thinking skill so that you don’t fall blindly for gross exaggerations & hyperbole so easily.
I hope so too. Now what is it you wanted to say about Marc’s video?
Jay who?
We are not living in the world of the big three networks anymore. Believe it or not there are millions and millions of people who never watched Jay. Johnny Carson dominated the prime time airwaves but Jay? One of many who had very limited influence. Much ado about nothing.