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“you are hatred personified”
Hillblogger,
just because you continually pull stuff out of your ass, doesn’t make it true.
“And you wonder why you are failing in your self described mission of trying to be the good American?”

Pure idiocy on your behalf, I am saying as an American who is NOT a french basher, and the millions of others who are NOT french bashers, you are alienating with your stereotypes and semi-hidden insults…and widespread generalizations. There is no “mission”, everything about you is sides. This is what I have learned from you:
Its okay to make fun of Americans because they make fun of the French, Americans can be generalized into one category which is the fat stupid redneck conservative who hates France.
You are as one-sided as they come and like I have stated on several occassions. HYPOCRITE

“Nothing is ever black or white!”

It’s funny how your own beliefs are quickly thrown aside when dealing with topics NOT dealing with France.

“(Americans of all people should understand this as it is they who generally live by the gun today — US Constitution contains a major proviso making it a right virtually for Americans to live by the gun; the power of the NRA, one of the major and perhaps, the strongest lobby in the US, is a virtual manifestation of that culture, i.e., the right to live by the gun .)”

A classic example of your exaggerated statistics.

All exchanges between Jane & Hillblogger posted after the yellow card post have been “unapproved”. Last warning.

Miquelon, you have deleted all of our posts, but have left Barney’s post without an answer. This is unfair, Hillblogger is in the wrong and he/she shouldn’t be protected for that.

Perhaps it would be good to offer a concise history of French Bashing with links to your editorials? That way, people would be able to connect general knowledge with hard facts and real incidents.

Wernesson attaque:

http://www.la-garconniere.com/index.php?showtopic=2764&st=100&gopid=197274&#entry197274

L’orthographe et l’âge n’ont rien à voir. C’est tout de même dégoutant que, depuis quelques années, on puisse voir dans des journaux de tous les pays, non seulement étatsuniens, la logique “surrender monkey” à notre égard.

Si vous tenez absolument à être un surrender monkey, allez-y, soyez le bouffon des Etats-Unis & cie. Un beau bonnet avec des grelots vous sierait à merveille, ainsi qu’une banane et un drapeau blanc. Moi, je préfère ne pas cracher sur nos aïeux et combattre ceux qui voudraient nous faire voir comme des pouilleux lâches et sans dignité.
 
Y’a du futur dans le costume surrender monkey, on pourrait le faire mettre aux collabos!

Bash alert!

From the blog “Motion captured”, the author describes an incident by saying it’s “a devastating portrait of French surrender”.

Amazing! I mean, we’ve had ONE capitulation, and all of a sudden “French surrender” has become something general!!!

This is driving me nuts, I tell you.

#15

I guess it’s true what they say. Ignorance is bliss.
Les mecs ont sciemment choisi de fermer les yeux et de se boucher les oreilles. Ils y en a meme qui se joignent aux bashers. Eux méritent les sobriquets anti-français dont on affuble les français outre-atlantique.

Pauvre France.

Vous parlez du forum de South Park? Ha oui, c’est lamentable. Je leur ai répondu, mais je perds mon temps.

Miquelon,

I agree that there should be standard of behaviour in any blog — that’s fine.

But let’s get things straight:  In this particular “exercise”, I WAS ATTACKED FIRST on a personal level and attacked relentelessly by someone I never heard about nor read about.  Question is why was I singled out?

You must admit that the normal reaction of anyone who is aggessed is to defend and to fight back… unless of course, you would have preferred that I as a commenter,  should “surrender” without batting an eyelash and take all the spittle with nary a word of protest.

I resent your “Last warning” … you know why?  Because I see that you have fallen in the trap of that American commenter who had violently forced the issue in order to force your hand — any of comments that are now deemed to be remotely critical of Americans (as mine are) in your blog will be deleted.

The tactic is so transparent, it worked and you “caved in”  even if you had to be unfair to me.

Look, I don’t mind.  It’s your site — good to have participated while the going was good.  This is my last posting. Your hysterical commenter will now be pleased to learn that the “American basher” is gone.

Last word of advice is for you to take it easy and to be extra judicious about your warnings as in who or why one truly deserves it more than the other: You might be falling right in the trap of those who don’t wish France and the French well.

1. If your argument with another poster becomes heated, remember: agree to disagree. Do not resort to personal attacks, and do not belittle someone else’s argument. Instead of making it personal, use reason and persuasive skills to make your point or criticize theirs.
2. All comments must be intelligent and civil. Miquelon.org, which is a private project, welcomes debate and does not “censor”. It does, however, remove or modify comments that are ill-tempered or do not contribute to civil discourse, or contain materials deemed inappropriate. If your comment is removed or modified, and you attempt to post it or something similar again, your IP will be banned.

J’ai apprécié ta reponse toute en retenu et dignité André mais bon le niveau des fora francais est toujours aussi pitoyable surtout ceux reunissant les jeunes  : ignorance crasse , relativisme petochard etc etc …
bref passons , cet episode ne me fera pas ne plus aimer South Park mais c’est un peu rageant quoi

Debate has its’ place. This blog is debating the environment where some Brits and some Americans make what we believe to be false statements. Concurrantely, this blog should support the defense of all peoples against unwarrented insult.  It is important to defend France AND America (maybe even the English) from falsehood. The key to civilized and worthy defense is to not be personnal. Only address the issue, not the person. There is a lot of intelligence displayed on this blog and we should respect what each contributor brings to each issue.
There, I got that off my chest. Thank you.

#17
Oui, apparemment je me suis trompé de thread.

Hillblogger, you are incredibly wrong, so naive and ignorant. I singled you out because you were doing what you were complaining the Americans were doing to the French. It shouldn’t happen and you should knock it off. I didn’t attack your or aggress you, I called you out on your bullshit. Its not like anyone else was, y0u all have the same opinions about matters, which can be quite ridiculous. You can’t just label someone and attack them as such, it doesn’t work.

On the other hand, I believe Miquelon should have left both of our comments up. The people here are old enough to decide for themselves what they will make of it.

‘ singled you out because you were doing what you were complaining the Americans were doing to the French.’

Sometimes, bashing back is the only thing left to do…We did not start this thing.
The “anti-Americanism” you think you perceive from some contributors here is the result of years and years of extremely offensive comments about French cowardice in the American media and on the Internet.
I do not condone this attitude but there comes a time when you need to take responsibility for your actions and suffer the consequences.

Barney,

what you said is still wrong. Bashing back is not the answer, and bashing back at whom exactly? Americans? Most Americans are not involved in any sort of french bashing, so you are making yourself worse. You are also angering Americans who do not French bash and who may turn against you.

Actions? concerning me? I have nothing to do with the people who have bashed the French and will coninue to call out those who generalize and bring out their frustration on America.

You know what? I thought that this episode was hilarious! And I don’t even live in the United States!
I think that this has been taken way out of proportion, and anyone that gets offended at comments like were made on the show, is feeble and juvenile (to put it nicely). God, South Park has made fun of Canadians so often, I can’t even remember, but guess what? It’s funny! Hell, they’ve even made fun of other Americans!

So seriously: chill out, take a joke, and remember: c’est une blague. Ce n’est pas comme ça dit: «Ouais! Tous les français et les françaises sont faibles, et vous ne deviendrez jamais quelques choses, grosses t******s.»

[Translation: It’s a joke. It’s not like they said, “Yup! All French people are weak, and you’ll never amount to anything, you big p*****s.”]

If they went that far, then that’s uncalled for. But until somebody does, relax, take it easy, and remember: it’s a joke.

That joke is getting old, Cody…

The French are sick and tired of being labeled cowards and pussies by the American media.
2 million Frenchmen died on battlefields all over the world this past century.
There’s so many things to make fun of the French, why does it always have to be this surrender shit ?
I’m sure the humiliating defeat of the French in 1940 is hilarious to many Americans but it is not to the French.
Being constantly reminded of that sad chapter in our history in 2009 can only be explained by some deep resentment  and a willingness to hurt the French people.
They think they have valid reasons to hate the French (it’s their problem) but let’s not delude ourselves that this is just humor. And don’t give us any crap about our sense of humor. Because seriously, what other ethnicity or nationality would not take offense at being constantly labeled a coward ?

[Translation: It’s a joke. It’s not like they said, “Yup! All French people are weak, and you’ll never amount to anything, you big p*****s.”]

Are you kidding ? Of course that’s what those jokes imply.

Stan said as much in episode 805 – You got F in the A.
Stan: “Otherwise you might as well move to France with all the other pussies”.

Barney (98), Here, you have laid out a well developed argument. I see this blog and SuperFrenchie as concrete efforts to confront and refute labels. I would suggest that your arguments are best used to inspire insightful reflections on what we all say and not met to be any tit for tat. I do agree that the attempted “humor” about 1940 is truely discusting. I am amazed at how many people, confronted by logical retort, are stunned, and often appoligetic. The normal response is that they “didn’t know, didn’t think” and that they were only reciting  “talking points” they have heard “over and over”. These prople are not bad, they simply do not have the breath of knowledge and received minimal history in school.

“These prople are not bad, they simply do not have the breath of knowledge and received minimal history in school”

That is very patronizing. No, we do not have in depth French history in the US. From various years I can think of several occasions when  the French would pop up. Studying the American Revolution, WW1, WW2, and other off hand things such as the French Revolution, and wars with Britain in the Midde Ages and the Renaissance era.

Just because we don’t learn much French history doesn’t mean we know minimal history .

      Thanks Cody. People who do not like South Park do not understand how it works.
      Remember the show “All in the Family”?  Carol O’Connor played a bigoted man. They did this to show how ridculous bigotry is. This is exactly what South Park does. The person on the show being bigoted is usually made out to be a fool in the end. Regardless, the show is hilarious. And if anyone thinks they pick on the French, they should start counting how many times they fun of other people. They have made literally thousands of jokes at the expense of every aspect of American culture, and all the other cultures too. They have made fun of movie stars that sooooo deserve it.
   Anyway…, I don’t want to start another back and forth with people who will never see this point so let’s just leave it at that. If you think South Park is so terrible, don’t watch it. As for me and Cody…., will be laughing our asses off.

Wayne — I understand your point, but I also understand it’s horribly convenient. From Leno the archbasher to the lowest French-bashing pundit, we all get the we make fun of everybody response. No good. Here’s Mr. Chamberlain talking to Hitler:

A.H: “Nein! Ve do nicht only kill ze Jews! Ve also kill ze gypsies, und ze disabled, und ze homosexuals… Ve ist ein equal-oportunity genocider.”

N.C: “Oh, I see! That’s much better. Do pardon my intrusiveness.”

The added difference here is that, whereas in another episode, the bigot is one of the characters (Cartman) in this episode, the bigot is the narrator, the demiurg who created the stereotypical French and made them conform to the surrender trope.

There’s an essential difference.

Jane — I agree that, on paper, history as taught in the U.S. isn’t that bad, or at least it has much greater potential than it would seem nowadays. Nevertheless, it must be pointed out that stereotypes and tropes even pervade with cultured people. I had this American friend, an extremely cultured fellow and a delightful conversationist. He was extremely well-read, particularly in history, and yet he, at one point, gave in to the surrender trope — which is completely unfounded, as you surely know (1940 wasn’t even a surrender, it was an armistice!). Which comes to prove that even intelligent people get affected by propaganda.

I’ve watched every single ep of SP at least once. So I’m aware of how South Park works. It’s not with SP per se that we are mad at but we’re just disappointed that SP gave in and participated in the “French are surrender-monkeys” bash fest the US media seems so fond of.
Wayne, once again make fun of the French all you want. But lay off the coward meme. It is particularly offensive and unfair since 2 million Frenchmen died on battlefields all over the world this pas century.
An entire generation of American people is now growing up associating the French people as a whole with cowardice. It does hurt otherwise pro-American French people. That shit needs to stop now.

Will you at least acknowledge that or am I talking to a wall here ?

# 6 : Thibaud, est-ce que tu sais, si c’est possible à quantifier, à quel degré ce french bashing s’étend chez nos plus proche alliés européens ? J’espère que ça reste marginal… Quant à Twitter, je n’ai pas dit que nous ne devions rien faire, seulement vouloir arrêter ça avec nos seuls moyens est illusoire, autant vouloir empêcher le titanic de couler en écopant avec un dé à coudre… Il faudrait que notre gouvernement et ce bon peuple prennent conscience du problème et fassent quelque chose. Mais ils sont trop occuper à pratiquer une forme du “vice anglais” (un comble !) entre eux, via les forums de South Park !

Jane (100),  Obviously, there are Americans who took the time to learn, but, I have to tell you  that, in discussions, I again and again find that my buddies know of Egypt, Greece, Rome (and of course Israel), straight to England and on to Manafest Destiny. I also know that schools are a lot better in Iowa than they are in Texas, better in Oregon than in Alabama. Additionally, I think that American schools do a rather poor job in teaching students how to learn once they leave the system. A lot of this is due to an environment where tired workers come home and do nothing but watch the TV.

Je ne saurais te dire… c’est rampant dans la plupart des cas, il n’y a pas cette volonté de nuire ou de s’affirmer comme chez les french bashers américains, mais ils reprennent les mêmes vannes et les mêmes clichés.
J’ai bien peur que ce ne soit pas si marginal que ça malheureusement :/

You raise some good points and I agree with you, but if the student pays attention in school, or reads the history books, they will have a decent general knowledge of history. But it isn’t just the American education system that has problems. Canadians, and Americans have scored on average the same standardized tests scores. And the average IQ of both countries is almost identical.

Jane (105) Yes, the student needs to read on his own. That’s what I ended up doing. Also, standardized tests gear more to reading and math (at least in the South) and are not signs of the activity of researching outside of the school environment.  My mother made me memorize Shakspeare and read fifty books per year. My daughters did the same (plus Voltaire and Plato), but, I don’t think that that is common practice in American homes.

Well, students who have a particular fondness towards Literature classes and History classes will absorb more of what is taught, such as Shakespeare, and other things. It is not common practice in American homes to memorize Voltaire, Shakespeare and Plato, but is it in France? Or other countries?

The reading of 50 books a year, I just enjoy reading, but don’t like to be told to read. In school we had to read at least an hour a night and get it checked off by our parents, I did miserably in this because I hated being told how long I had to read, even though I read many books.
There are more standardized tests that deal with Math and Reading, they are the two subjects that get the most funding by the State. But their are also standardized tests in science, and history. But keep in mind education differs from state to state, emphasis on certain subjects in one state may not be the case in other states.

The two main standardized tests to get into college in the US are the SATs, which focus on reading, writing, and math and the ACTs, which focus on all subjects. I have noticed that the popularity of the ACTs has grown.

Jane, I really didn’t mind the reading. Mom made me go to the library every two weeks and get three books.  It was lousey to walk a mile each way in ice or 100 plus degreeweather. I also preferred to get our and play football (American). From what I see now days, and what my teacher wife tells me,  kids today are taught to the test and, in reality, receive minimal rounded education. I believe that this is more of a problem in the South that it is in the North or West. Heavens, in the US we only have to learn one language and we have real problems mastering one! I do like to see that Spanish is now making inroads in the South.

I agree with you with well-rounded education, most of school is preparations for tests, and more tests, whether it be standardized or other.

I think that Spanish should be taught in schools alongside English, it will broaden people’s horizons and make them think outside the box. Of course the Republicans are against this. They must keep their sheep as sheltered to the outside world as possible.

Jane (109), that, unfortunately, is an excellent point. Well stated.

Another spike in French Bashing in the comment sections of Canadian news sites.

Barney you keep making repliess to my comments like:
“Wayne, once again make fun of the French all you want. But lay off the coward meme. ”

I’d like you to go back and look at my comments and see once I have used the coward meme. Or where I have made fun of the french for anything except taking all this crap a little too serious.

You say…, “This shit has got to stop!” What shit? This is a case of you judging me for someone else has done.

Dans la presse allemande c’est la spécialité du “Spiegel”, mais c’est un journal nationaliste (nationalisme de gauche, version allemande du chevènementisme) qui n’épargne pas non plus les Américains. Son rédacteur en chef R. Augstein était pathologiquement anti-français. Il y a aussi un petit peu la “Süddeutsche Zeitung”, et il y a surtout le journal suisse “Neue Zürcher Zeitung”, complaisant pour les islamistes algériens.  

Wayne, you keep criticizing us for taking this too seriously. I think we have explained our reasons enough. We’re not getting through to you, obviously.
And I’ve never accused you of using the coward meme yourself.

When I say “this shit has got stop!”, I’m talking about the US media’s obsession with associating the French people with cowardice. When such a popular show as SP does it so blatantly and when you not only laugh along but chastize the French for being offended then you’re not really helping with that, are you ?

This site sure got quiet. Anybody out there? Are you ALL on twitter?

This site sure got quiet.

No french-bashing news is good news 😉

FrancisK (23), Great to hear from you! Please give me some insight. I am hearing that there are several strikes at Universities around France. I have never thought that disrupting educations were anything but a disaster. Are they on a disturbing scale or are they minimal?   Why would kids want to messup their and others obtainment of a degree? Over here, a lot of people can’t afford to stay in school too long before they have to go out and make money. I know that attendance is more economical in France, but, isn’t there pressure for the students to get out into the world?

OBSESSION?  I must live in a different USA than the one you are talking about. In all my many years, this is the first reference I’ve heard in the media about this. I’m sure there were others, but none than I remember hearing.

I did see something about the French on the news today. It’s nothing bad or nothing good. I just thought you find it interesting.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090504/lf_nm_life/us_france_sleep

“OBSESSION? I must live in a different USA than the one you are talking about. In all my many years, this is the first reference I’ve heard in the media about this”

You don’t seriously expect us to believe that, do you ?

More garbage on reddit despite a great video link, I think I lost my cool…

I loved it. After all, why reason with French-Bashers, who have the IQ of a soggy water biscuit? They don’t reason with us, so I don’t see why we should reason with them. Hit ’em hard, Marc!

#117

You were completely right.
Being nice and polite with those people do not accomplish much if anything at all.

Sense of humor my ass. The least bit of criticism of America from French people sends them into a rage. Just look at the degenerate racists of no pasaran or the no less degenerates on bremner’s blog, let alone ffrance.com.
These bashers are the worst kind of hypocrites. If the roles were reversed, if they were constantly the butt of jokes trivializing the sacrifices and deaths of their soldiers not only would they not be laughing along but they would send us death threats and would do anything in their power to stop us.

Talking about obsession. Go to any blog or forum on the Internet, start a thread involving the French ( a news story for instance) and I guarantee that 90% of the time, some asshole will make a surrender joke even if the story is totally unrelated to military matters.
Like clockwork…

Barney — I second the forum thing. In fact, my girlfriend told me, the other day, that there were even jokes on French hygiene in a MAKEUP forum! Astounding, looks like their young ladies are no less bloodthirsty than their men…

Deux mots en français pour vous dire que je serai occupé par d’autres projets dans les prochaines semaines, notamment les élections à l’Assemblée des Français de l’Étranger (AvenirFranceMondiale.org), circonscription de Toronto – Ottawa – Vancouver.

Je continuerai de jeter un coup d’oeil sur le site et les discussions qui s’y mènent mais je ne pourrai – sauf cas de force majeure – écrire de nouveau billets avant le début juin.

I think it’s the same on both sides of the Atlantic… I mean in France we have a whole bunch of clichés about Americans…
The average french thinks that Americans are fat, sweaty, ignorant, that they wear noisy flip flops over their socks everyday and can’t help having ridiculously strange face expressions whatever they do or say.
WORST: A lot of French people sincerely think Americans kinda diserved what happened to them on 9-11, considering it as “a big slap in the face of a noisy spoiled kid”.

So before blaming on americans, let’s solve our family matters…

And anyway, any educated  French or American know that there is as much difference between 2 random americans than between 2 random French, that bitter and sweet can be met in anyone, anywhere.
That’s why clichés are just funny and cannot in any case define an entire group of people.