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      Hello! It’s Wayne again…, your favorite American. I stayed out of the conversation for a couple days to let it calm down some. I am still laughing at the picture of the yellow card Miquelon submitted. That was clever!
   To be honest, I was again planning to make this my last entry and was not going to be too nice about it.  But some comendable diplomacy supplied by Miquelon has once again changed my mind.
   It does seem there is some misinterpretation and I find that my the message of my original post has long been lost. If you go way back up to the top and re-read some of my comments, you will see I was trying to communicate to you all that inspite of a joke you obviously took personally, the world as I know it does not think bad of the french. In fact…, I have great respect for them. I saw Christine Lagarde  (your Finance Minister) today on “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” and thought she was a delightful women. She and Jon joked about Goerge Bush’s creepy rub of her shoulders at that meeting a year or so ago. She is a smart woman and has a great sense of humor. She and and Jon joked about something stupid an American did and no one was offended. In fact it was pretty damn funny.
  Anyway, back to why I started writing on this blog to begin with. I did so at first because I felt you were being  to sensitive.  After hearing rebuttal I found out this is a touchy subject f0r you. So there was good back-and-forth that seem to be creating some comrodary between representatives of out individual countries.
    I did try at every turn to always include some compliments and some recognition of your feelings. But again I must be honest, a day ago I was ready to throw in the towel and start believing maybe French people aren’t as reasonable I thought. That would have been a mistake on my part. I now realize it was just one French person that was being over represented on this site.
    I ask you to go back and read every comment I’ve made and you will see I have not told one French joke. I even laughed at the one good American joke (the skyscraper one). Some found it a little distasteful but I thought it was funny and said so. The one joke I said sucked was just a shitty joke. I wasn’t offended in the least. The joke was poorly told,  poorly constructed and relied on an obsure news event I had never heard of.  But I do want to counter the point that I can dish it out but can’t take it. I neither dished any jokes out or became upset about accepting any.
     Any joke is going to offend somebody. “But if you can’t laugh at yourself, you have no right to laugh at others.”  You can quote me on that one.    🙂 LOL
   But I do want to offer an example of  how not to let it end up a way bigger deal than it is. Which is the whole purpose of why I started this whole discussion in the first place.

     In his reply to comments I previously made, Hillblogger made a reference that I went all epileptic. Well.., it just so happens I am epileptic. It is an insensitive comment, especially to someone like me, but I know by the context of his comment it wasn’t meant to be a put down of epileptics. It was meant as a put down of me personally. So there is no real reason for me to get all upset  just because I happen to be epileptic. I could be upset for other reasons but why bother.
   My point is Hillblogger did not purposely insult epileptics. But an insensitive remark might produce a reaction as if he did. It’s the same for a lot of the humor out there. When we hear humor in the proper context (meaning it wasn’t meant to attack or hurt someone) it’s just a joke. 
     To sum it up, I’m saying don’t let words determine the true message someone is attempting to get across. Context and tone of voice are much more of an accurate criteria to determine if someone’s true message is truely attacking you or just some playful banter.  When you can’t tell the difference between the two you are going to not only get upset alot, but your going to miss out on a lot of laughter and opportunities to gain closer friendships.
     Okay, believe it or not,  now that I’ve had my say,  I’m actually going to challenge you to make some light of the past few days events. The events happened in America but we can laugh about them without upsetting anyway if we do it for fun…, not to demean or hurt anyone.
    Two things that happened yesterday that were funny as hell and deserve to be made fun of. I challenge you to come up with a joke without being mean about it.
       The first one is a low flying plane in New York which caused people to panic like we were be invade by aliens.  Now I can see why it scared them but you have to admit afterwards it was kind of funny.
   The second one is the media coverage about the swine flu.  I’m still laughing about some of the ridiculous behavior of some of the reporters. They made it sound like the black plague had arrived but at the end of the report practically shouted: “BUT THERE’S NO NEED TO PANIC!!!!”
It was ridiculous.
   Now see if between us we can make some funny jokes about this without being mean, demeaning, or hurtful. I think it would be a good exercise to help us communicate and laugh with each other in a way the brings Americans and the French closer…, not further apart.
   Viva La France!
        Wayne

One thing I just noticed at the top of the page is the Frech Bashing levels of certain people and programs. I saw that Fox News level was at orange (elevated). Could I please ask you…, no beg you not use Fox news as a gage for how you judge America. They are the channel of the most right-wing extremist and have no scruples or regard for the truth. I am truely ashamed to have them be an example of anything that comes from America. Please don’t take anything they say personally or use them as a barometer of American News media. They offend me more than they ever could offend you. To call them American news…, actually to call them news at all is an insult to intelligence world-wide.

Wayne,

I understand and agree in a certain measure with what you say about Fox news; it’s like associating France with Le Pen. Sadly, though, Le Pen does exist, as does Fox News, and they both must be taken into account.

So, if we had a “antisemitism in France barometer”, I think Le Pen would be one of the levels, even though he only represents the most disgusting extreme right wing in France.

Oh brother!

Wayne, please read the sequence of comments, that comment was  not meant for you!!!!

And right you are! It was not meant to put down epileptics and actually after I wrote it I knew it was in poor taste. It also so happens that a cousin is epileptic.

Once again Wayne fails to acknowledge, obviously purposefully, that is only with a certain stereotype we have a problem with. The coward one. The one that spits on our dead and makes use of the worst tragedy in our history to make a point.

Other than that you can make fun of anything you want about the French, although the “smell bad” stereotype is also quite offensive if you ask me.

Came across this from a UK news on line outlet while scouring the web for news mocking the French for having the longest holiday that’s being discussed over at SuperFrenchie’s.
French surrender makes Scotland’s absence harder to bear
[…] Come to think of it, were it not for the French, the rain (there’s an odd Swiss man with a beard building an ark in Berne city centre) and the over-officious stewards then there would be nothing left to complain about. […]
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/comment/columnists/sport-columnists/keith-jackson/2008/06/19/french-surrender-makes-scotland-s-absence-harder-to-bear-86908-20612976/
What a piece of shitty title…  Another media bonehead  propagating what is clearly a historical lie!

With you on that Barney! Nothing coward in the French.

We fought in more wars and had more deaths than Americans would ever experience.

That France was divided during WWII is not and cannot reflect on or question French courage.

I wholeheartedly recommend reading “comme des lions”. It’s really a great read! It shows how the defeat of the French in 1940 was not due to cowardice but to poor leadership by showing some of the truly heroic (if unsuccessful) moments of the Battle of France.

André,

Will order a copy now not only for myself but  I also want my teen-aged children to read/know more about that sorry phase of our history.  French bashing has encouraged them to know more about France’s history and how it has roused the patriot in them.

Oh, and a word of advice: stay away from books on military history written by Anglo-Saxons.

The other day I went to the bookstore, and I saw a (translated) book called something like “the 70 greatest battles in history”… written by a Briton.

So, lo and behold! 75% of the “greatest battles in history” were in fact British battles. Preferably British victories. That led to some pretty absurd choices…

For instance, the author chooses three napoleonic battles. Would the brilliant Austerlitz be there? The tactically astounding Iéna-Auerstadt, perhaps? Or maybe Marengo, Napoleon’s favourite victory?

No… Trafalgar, Leipzig and Waterloo. Three French defeats, not ONE of Napoléon’s victories. How stupid is that?!?

Then again, two battles which MUST appear in any self-respecting Anglo-Saxon book: Crécy and Agincourt.

Once again, the choice is stupid: what lessons can you draw from two ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL battles?!? Would it not be wiser to introduce, for instance, Agincourt and Formigny, which are opposite versions? (in Agincourt, the defensive longbow scheme worked; in Formigny, it failed utterly). But no — no French victories.

Likewise, no Fontenoys, no Denains, no Almansas… Only Rossbach, a terrible French defeat.

And then, they try to place the insignificant, minor battle of Bannockburn (Scots vs. Brits) at the same level as GAUGAMELA! Ridiculous!!!

So, the golden rule is: no military history written by Anglo-Saxons.

Let us give thanks.

Miquelon #15 – I’ve tried to find it in Fox’s archives (saw your post) but no success. All I can remember is that the guest in question is an actor who’s played mafia roles on TV (as I recall Hannity saying). Sorry. Coincidentally, I was speaking to someone yesterday who, despite his “knowledge” of WW2,  had no clue 110,000 French soldiers died in 1939-40. My uncle was a POW in 1939, escaped from prison and re-captured in Grenoble. He was sent to Buchenwald and never returned. He was 21. Thanks for your hard work and not letting the memory of the French soldiers and civilians be forgotten.

FrancisK (21), The sacrifice of those who struggle to keep democracy and freedom should not, and will not, be forgotten. It is a terrible loss when one thinks about the loss of a full life such as your uncles’ life. We all lose, and have lost, when we lose great people in their youth.

Hillblogger, yes I’m done with the arguing, you have no points to make, your just a tool…sorry but tools make me angry. You wouldn’t dare change your hypocritical attitude anyway. Be warned your doing your cause more harm than good.

#23

How is Hillgbloger doing more harm than good ? People have tried to be nice and explain politely how offensive the coward stereotype is to the French. Sadly being nice doesn’t work.
You’re angry ? How do you think we feel ?

Andre (81), How absolutly correct you are. A lot of these “books” are nothing more that propaganda. There are, however, some honest efforts by some British academics to be more evaluative. Those efforts should be encouraged.

For those who care, I’m @miquelon on twitter. Not sure if I find twitter very useful yet except for broadcasts.

Barney,

Hillblogger sinks to the level of people using french stereotypes and she alienates the actual people who are on her side. As a neutral American reading her comments I can pinpoint her as a hypocrite. Her “hidden” jabs at Americans collected from various posts of hers: We are violent, fat, stupid, and uncultured. These are all stereotypes created by twisting statistics and some purely in the imagination. HYPOCRITE

Thanks for the heads up. It’s 2009 and some of these Conservatives are mentally still in mid-1700’s England, or 1798 America. We’re ALLIES, not FOILS.

Allez faire un tour sur les fan site de south park style southpark-tv.com ben c’est edifiant l’ignorance et la franche flagelation des fan francais (que je suis) .Les precedentes allusions a la france ne me genaient pas , mais la je suis un peu colere …

Here is an issue I think that disturbs me and I think will disturb you more. I think it is something you probably have not seen and definately needs to be brought to your attention.
The very website which made me aware of your concerns in the first place is called reddit.com. It is open to anyone to post political arguements, usually backed with a link to an article which prompted their comment in the first place. Then reddit.com members can comment and other members can reply and give thumbs up or thumbs down.
   There are certain people on there that are totally pigheaded and say things that are so one-sided that only a partisan extremist can even begin to think might be true. For the most part, it does open up some spirited debate.
      But there is one person that constantly submits post that labels Obama as some sort of anti-christ. He uses slurs and lies and has become an extreme annoyance. Every single posting about Obama he starts off with calling Obama several negative labels as part of Obama’s name. Most of them which don’t make much sense.  An example of this is;
“Teleprompter, Acorn, Soros,  Obama says …,” 
     I don’t know if you are familar with what these labels are supposed to mean but I’ll tell you briefly in case you don’t:
Teleprompter:    Because he uses a teleprompter in his speeches (big deal)
Acorn:    A voter registration organization that was under scrutiny during
                  the campaign.
Soros:    A famous socialist

Now I get to the part that’s going to piss you off. He has now added Manchurian to that label. Correct me if I am wrong, but manchurian means french like; correct?

If was anyone else had put this label on Obama I might not even think it was meant as an insult. But no matter what this guy says I can guarentee it is meant as such. For the life of me, I don’t know why he considers being french-like is an insult. I have no idea what he is implying.
  Now there are many other reasons I’d like to see this guy booted because his comments are so hate-filled and ignorant. Regardless of what my comments are will not be taken serious because all I am to him is an Obama supporter…, the lowest creature on earth in his mind. But I thought it was time that he heard from some people that have no ties to my political system and could care less what Obama does. He needs to hear from people that the labels he is putting on someone he hates are very demeaning to others. In this case you. It’s like calling someone a nigger. This would be an insult to black people even if the guy being called that wasn’t black.
    This is what this guy is doing using the term for a frenchman as an insult. A heavy-duty insult at that.

   I thought it was something you should be aware of. Here is the link to one of his childish comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8gmng/manchurian_president_benito_acorn/

 This will get you to just this one comment. In order to leave a comment you will have to do a very simple registration. You know…, just your user name, email address, and password.
The guy’s user name is “redditman” 
The address to the home page of this site is:
reddit.com

The comment I have left a link to is just one of about ten he leaves everyday. Every single one begins with the manchurian label using it like it is a gross insult. I think you guys should check it out and leave comments of your own. You may also want to check out this site in general. You can post your concerns and comment on others as well.
If you have any questions about it…, please feel free to ask me.

As an American…, I can say this guy is responsible for the most blatent French bashing that goes on in my country. Please tell me what you think and how I can assist with getting the word out that this is not acceptable. Until next time…,
 Wayne

Hey someone tell me what Benjamin said. I don’t parley vous francais. I probably don’t spell it very well either.

benjamin, merci du lien. En effet, les compatriotes en métropole ne comprennent nullement les conséquences de ces attaques anti-françaises. C’est comme si les Français expatriés n’étaient pas compris par leurs compatriotes dans ce domaine.

Wayne, I won’t worry or waste my time with reddit-man. The user has no credibility on reddit with comment karma in the negative 700s. The guy is a joke on reddit. 

Okay…, My bad!  I looked it up on an online dictionary and it said it meant french-like. Oh well. Thanks for clarifying. Is there anyway you can delete that whole comment then?
As for asking what Benjamin said, I meant what did he say in English.

You know the site well Miquelon. He is a joke and no one takes him serious. It just bothered me when I thought I thought he was using a racial slur in the context of an insult. You see it does bother me when someone says something racial in the context of hate, regardles of which race he is insulting. I basically ignored the guy until I thought he was making a hurtful, hateful bigoted statement.

Seriously Miquelon.., can you delete comment number 84? It kind of makes me look stupid

Regardless…, thanks for setting me straight on that. I might of gone on and on and made myself look more stupid.

Jane — you are hatred personified. And you wonder why you are failing in your self described mission of trying to be the good American?

Cut the crap now will you? Nobody is interested in your drivel.

I truly wonder what these people hope to achieve by raising the bar of brutal hostility against France? I call it racism. Pathetic in the extreme.

When one hears or reads these personal attacks on the French, one can not help but feel angry and return the “compliment.”

These people who perpetuate hate against France are sadly uncultured and ignorant who probably inherited the ignorance of their elders.

One feels truly sorry for them but at the same time, we cannot allow such venom spewed our way, all the lies said about us, and the insults spewed our way unchecked.

And it’s not easy not to return fire for fire.  (Americans of all people should understand this as it is they who generally live by the gun today — US Constitution contains a major proviso making it a right virtually for Americans to live by the gun; the power of the NRA, one of the major and perhaps, the strongest lobby in the US, is a virtual manifestation of that culture, i.e., the right to live by the gun .)

Miquelon is admirable in his restraint.

Wayne/Miquelon,

Allow me to offer a translation of what Benjamin said:

Check out the fan site of South Park something like southpark-tv.com, quite extraordinary the ignorance and the self-flagelation of the French fans (of which I’m one). The previous ‘references’ to the French didn’t bother me, but this one makes me a bit angry.

You’re simply making a fool of yourself!

Hillblogger, Miquelon, Benjamin,

j’ai trouvé les commentaires du forum tout à fait navrants. Certes, il y en a qui nous défendent, mais d’autres acceptent avec joie d’être perçus comme des couards. Et eux, en tout cas, en acceptant de se faire moquer d’une telle façon, sont bel et bien des lâches.

C’est de la confirmation comportementale, quoi, comme on dit en psychologie sociale…

By the way, I also inserted “surrender” and “fatbeard” in Google… guess what, French-bashing got a nice big vitality boost. Everyone loved the “surrendering French”, and everyone was happy.

Except for me. I need a cuppa joe… and a Merkava… with Basher-seeking missiles.

André,

C’est un comportement franchement  exécrable !

Are we sure the commenters are French?

I’m embarassed vis-à-vis my teen age son…

My teen age son who is half French half English, at the beginning said he would like to join the British Army but now says  he would like to join the French Army; when I asked him “tartly” what he would do if there ever was war between France and England, whose side would he be on?
And sadly, I know why he chose the French Army and not the British Army (where long line of members of the English side of the family had served for generations beginning with the Napoleonic wars) — it is because of the blatant lie being spread around particularly during his growing up years about the French Army. But he wouldn’t answer — it was a difficult question (and I know an unfair question) for a teen ager who is half French half English but nobody can brand him a coward for not being able to answer.

Arrogant ? They might wanna think about looking at themselves in the mirror…
Who is constantly harping about America’s greatness ?

Do they even know what arrogant ( a French word) means ?

Miquelon,

Allow me to re-post here my thoughts on the “cowardice, surrender” accusations levelled against the French (that I’d posted in SuperFrenchie’s in response to a commenter there) in the hope they will help similar American or non-French accusers reading this blog understand that nothing is ever just black or white.

To the question: “Where was the French military? it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”
Just to get things in perspective:
The fact is the French military was “divided”, into virtually two factions following their conscience, one under Marshal Philippe Pétain, i.e., military loyalty to their commander in chief who was Pétain, and the other whose members believed that they did not want to accept the truce with the Germans (a good example: Colonel Charles de Gaulle) and would prefer to go AWOL even if sentenced to a military firing squad in asbentia.
Those members of the military (that included many in the French Foreign Legion whose members were, to a large extent, foreign recruits) who followed and obeyed Marshal Petain’s command to recognize the truce did so out of military discipline, and for many, it was with a heavy heart. But they did it to follow the chain of command and the fact that they followed the chain of command couldn’t then and cannot be today construed as cowardice.
It is important to note that the members of the French military who adhered to and followed the command (under the chain of command tenet) were by no means acting differently from any proper military organisation; that they were duped or perhaps ‘lulled’ into believing that a truce with the Germans was the right way forward for the country was in no way a reflection on their courage. They could be rightly accused of naiveté but naiveté is by no means a measure of cowardice. They were following orders under the chain of command military doctrine and that’s that.
The situation, if you like, is almost synonimous to what happened to the US Forces in Vietnam. America, despite its overwhelming superiority were overrun by the “tag-tag” North Vietnamese armies. And believe me, there were many officers and men in the US Armed Forces who were resolutely against any form of retreat and wanted to fight back and couldn’t accept defeat. But the US military chain of command had issued orders: ABANDON!!! RETREAT!!! SURRENDER, eg., US Embassy and US holdings in South Vietnam!!!
The fact that members of the US forces (and there were many of them, generals too, and I know because my father worked with the Americans in South Vietnam at the time) obeyed orders TO STOP FIGHTING AND TO RETREAT, is in no way a reflection on the courage of the US fighting forces in Vietnam and yet they did retreat, they abandoned and they surrendered their holdings.
So, with regard to “it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”, it was (as it is today) also the DUTY of the French Army to obey orders and to follow the French military chain of command.
It  is insulting, derogatory, a lie, an absolute show of bad faith if not outright ignorance to claim that because they obeyed the orders of Marshal Pétain, they were cowards.
That said, it is true that there were members of the French military who finally collaborated with the Germans. The ‘collaboration’ could have been easily motivated by two factors: (1) cowardice: the reality that some of them were indeed cowards (as in any nation, let’s not fool ourselves, there are people in the military who, when it comes to the crunch, become cowards (2) misguided principles: the fact that there were some in the French Army then who, out of misguided principles, began to believe in Hitler’s New World Order but to be fair, I don’t believe that these people who were misguided into believing Hitler’s New World Order were cowards either. The proof is many of them fought against the Allies and died fighting. So, where is cowardice in that?
More importantly, let’s not forget that there were many, many of those who, despite their loyalty to the French military command and their respect for Pétain, decided to go AWOL and fight back. Where is cowardice in that?
In fine, to the question and assertion, “Where was the French military? it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”, the French military was factionned… but many had gone to join the underground forces, others went to England to re-organise and to re-deploy in order to uphold their solemn duty to defend France.
So, to say that the French military during WWII (even under Pétain) were cowards as if it is Biblical truth is clearly a blatant piece of shit!
Nothing is ever black or white!

Hillblogger and André, you’re right. It is a despicable behavior. As long as the revisionists and bashers think it’s ok to call the French cowards they will carry on indefinitely. That’s why people need to speak up.

I can’t for the life of me think of a single French personality who ever spoke up against French-bashing. There have been French actors invited on late night shows on David Letterman or Jay Leno. They could have said something even in passing.

I guess the French ambassador spoke up against it a few times but it remained widely unnoticed.

BRAVO!

Franchement, j’ai regardé ça et je ne vois pas de quoi s’en faire plus que ça, dans ce cas précis, je veux dire… Premièrement l’intitulé suggère en soi une sorte de défouloir électronique : faute de pouvoir mordre on bavasse… Ensuite ajoutons y les participants : des républicains (avec ce sentiment de supériorité morale dont ils se sont convaincus), et puis avec ça des collégiens ou des lycéens, qui sont convaincus, eux, d’avoir inventé l’eau chaude… Ajoutez-y les foutaises patriotardes, et un ego équivalent, voire supérieur, à celui de leurs homologues français, remuez bien, et voilà… Ces gens sont bornés, convaincus de leur bon droit, et franchement immatures pour beaucoup d’entre eux, rien de ce qu’on dira ou fera n’y changera rien : inutile de leur donner un sentiment d’importance en s’abaissant à répondre.
Un ami Russe me disait il y a quelques temps de ça qu’il trouvait très drôle de voir les Français et les Américains se traîter réciproquement de pire arrogant qu’il soit : il ajoutait que, d’après son expérience, tout les deux avaient absolument raison…

Onion Jhonny a soulevé des points intéressants, mais qui est la population qui dans la plupart des cas surfe sur le net? Des lycéens et collégiens attardés, influencés par ceux qui ouvrent leurs gueules à tort et à travers  et donc ont un quasi monopole de l’opinion politique sur le net : les républicains aux Etats-unis et les extremistes tout bords en Europe.

A mon avis, ce que l’on souhaite éviter, c’est que la plupart des gens accepte comme lieu commun les clichés et contre vérités véhiculés par une minorité de personne qui de toutes façons ne changeront pas d’avis… ils sont immatures, incultes et ne changeront pas. Par contre les affronter n’est pas inutile car l’internaute un peu censé bien qu’il ne conaisse rien à la france saura reconnaître la bonne argumentation de la parole populiste.
Et je peux te garantir que le french-bashing est d’une telle violence sur le net parce que nous sommes très peu nombreux (nous les français) à pouvoir nous défendre dans un anglais corrects. Et beaucoup de ceux qui le peuvent tiennent ton raisonnement, à savoir : laisser faire; certains même en rigole, il n’y a qu’à voir les forums français sur South Park, la plupart ont adoré le dernier épisode et certains ont même apprécié les blagues sur les français! On se marche sur la tête. C’est ce que le gouvernement français a fait, magistrale erreur.

C’est pour cette raison que maintenant le french bashing est aussi pratiqué par certains jeunes allemands, scandinaves et j’en passe…
Bientôt les jeunes français, ou s’est déjà le cas croiront qu’ils sont lâches?

Fred 22, merci.

Onion Johnny,

je suis d’accord en grande mesure avec ce que vous argumentez, mais la conclusion que vous en tirez, c’est-à dire laissez faire, laissez passer, ne tient pas debout: voyez plutôt, les néo-nazis ne sont que des écervelés et des ordures sociales, mais ce n’est pas pour autant que nous n’allons pas combattre leurs idées!

Quand on commence à voir que nombre de journaux étrangers (cf. le filtre de Miquelon) reprennent le cliché du français lâche (cliché qui leur est étranger, et donc dénaturé: étaient-ils à Azincourt?) on voit bien l’étendue des dommages causés par ces calomnies.

P.S.: Je suis sûr que votre ami russe est un type formidable, mais j’ai assez trop de russes pour savoir qu’ils sont très bien placés pour parler d’arrogance. A les entendre, on croirait que leur pays est la Russie des Tzars!

Miquelon, Thank you so much for the link on your “From the wires” from Politico. I have been sending  it around the US to my beloved neocon “friends”  to remind them that they need to think when they critize the French for not being subservantly appreciative to the US for WWII. Seems that we have been FAR worse in our actions., not just taking a position, the US took negative action.

Oh Fred, the “From the Wires” is an automatic Yahoo Pipe, thank RSS for that ! 😉

“So, the golden rule is: no military history written by Anglo-Saxons”.
André – On the other hand you could check out Sir Edward Creasy’s well-known essay, “Fifteen Most Decisive Battles”  in which he lists 5 as “French” (technically 4 as the Normans were a mix of cultures). Not a bad record, I’d say.
“they did retreat, they abandoned and they surrendered their holdings”.

Yet I’ve seen countless jokes about Dien Bien Phu where the French, vastly outnumbered, didn’t have the luxury to bail their way out. For the story, my father (by no means an America-basher) recalls having a drink with an American adviser in Saigon (before the US involvement) who told him “give our military 3 months and we’ll take care of it”. 

Miquelon, that maybe true, but, you’re the library – a darn good one too. Thank you.

FrancisK (98), It always looks easier on the outside, looking in.

Someone on twitter told me the site was too focused on French Bashing materials and didn’t offer much explaining the origins and reason. What do you think ?

Reason? Do they want us to provide more than you already have? You clearly provide the source and what they say. The origin, when not made clear by the source, gets expansion is the replys and the reason is generally pretty obvious in that some people will come up with anything that meets their agenda.

Well with over 150 editorials and 1000 comments, it’s hard to get a concise opinion. Maybe it’s time for a Reader’s Digest version of what we know !