Leave totalitarianism where it is. It is off the topic. This is mere amalgam.
Fernand Braudel, 1987 : “Un historien de l’humanisme, Franco Simone, vient de nous mettre en garde contre la prétendue unité de l’Europe: ce serait une illusion du romantisme. Lui répondre qu’il a raison et tort à la fois, c’est dire en un mot que l’Europe est , au même instant, unité et diversité; ce qui semble à la réflexion aller de soi. Les chapîtres précédents ont montré une Europe engagée dans un même destin d’ensemble par sa religion, sa pensée rationaliste, l’évolution de la science et de la technique, son goût de la révolution et de l’équité sociale, ses réussites impériales”
Grammaire des civilisations (III-1 L’Europe ch IV Les unités de l’Europe)
Yet another postwar historian. Of course he thinks like this. He’s just another old Annaliste.
By the way, he died two years before 1987, so I doubt that’s when he wrote it, rather more the date of the edition you have…
The Annales school is essentially conditionned by its postwar milieu; the trauma of the two world wars is vivid, and one may not say that the school is detached from it. It is in that (well-meaning) milieu that the CECA was born, but I believe that it, with its unabashed and very recent intrusions into the world of culture (recent declarations by the commission; certain comic books spread out to children; certain ludicrous things such as when, the other day, I had to cook pasta with a can of mushrooms with a “european mushroom” seal on it…) which I do not like.
In other words, I like the existence of a European Economic Community, but when they attempt to enter the domains of culture, I believe they are acting from false premises.
“”The French have no word for entrepreneur,” said it all. He probably reckons they have no word for propaganda either, and let’s face it, he and his crew would know all about that.
Indeed, when the French refused to unquestioningly jig to America’s tune in the Middle East, there was almost instantly a tsunami of anti-French jokes by talk show hosts, comedians and on the net centred on the very questionable premise that the froggies are cowards. Example `For Sale E-Bay: one French World War Two rifle, never been fired, dropped only once’. Clever maybe, untrue certainly, and all because the French leadership did not unquestioningly render up large chunks of their youth as cannon fodder in a fight they didn’t start or believe in.
Terrorism was one thing, Saddam and Iraq very much another. Freedom Fries indeed!”
Very hope-inspiring! Let’s see if Bush’s departure leads to French-bashing becoming unacceptable, as a staple of the older régime.
It is revealing how he inmediately tried to cover up the government’s involvement. Saying “not stirred up by anybody except the people” is just like saying “I didn’t do it! I swear!”
I guess it was his guilty conscience — although he’s got enough innocent lives on it for a lifetime.
I used to play chess in Internet. Only because of French Bashing. Now, I only play with real players. I don’t want to loose time on Internet.
Between 1997 and 2003, I spent one hour almost each evening only to play chess. Usually, I played against North Americans. As I trained for official tournaments in France and later in Europe, it was a pleasure to meet good players in Internet.
Here’s my description on Yahoo profile : French, living near Paris.
Then, you surely guess what happened : I was regularly bashed, but that was not so serious. I decided to change my profile but I did not, as I’m not ashamed to be French.
One day, I was winning when my opponent wrote : “surrender !”. I thought he (she ?) was joking and replied with a smiley. Then he (she?) harassed me and several players came, they wrote me dozens of offending messages. I simply asked them to leave, but more came after. They put me under pressure but I resisted and won the game. I received more insults and the other players.
My Yahoo mail was bombed the night after… I received thousands of threatening messages.
When I was a teen, I dreamt visiting the States. American dream is dead.
I am encouraged that even around here, in Oklahoma, persons of the far right political bent are acting encouraged and thankful that Obama is now in charge. I even got an appology for French-bashing from a lifelong right wing Republican!
Looks like it may very well be a new day!
There’s a story on the wires about Chirac being mauled by his poodle… This is the kind of story that just feeds into so many stereotypes. Or have I become paranoid?
DJU – BTW, I know how awful mail bombing can be, I was harassed to the tune of thousands of emails per hour by this insane nutbar who would use the “send this article to a friend” links on news sites.
I had his IP, logs of what he did, yet his ISP refused to do anything at all. He was notorious for posting supposed hat tips on various pro-war blogs and claimed to be a “former Army Armor Officer” – He was also prolific on FF…
You know, this whole Roquefort thing is actually quite flattering. You’d think that after his mandate, he’d attempt to take revenge against Democrats, or against anti-war activists… but no, it had to be on the French!
We must have been depriving the poor, poor man of much sleep…
I was never a fan of roquefort, so the tarif increase won’t hurt me. However, you can see the pettiness in Bush by the increase. One last kick to the French before he leaves office. Scumbag.
So glad he’s G ON E 🙂
Now, if he had increased tariffs on French wine….!!!!
When I went to the US, I really missed my fromage de chèvre. They didn’t really have anything equivalent, only some muck which they passed off as “French goat cheese”…
Is this the end for Miquelon.org ? Probably not since objects in mirror are closer than they appear, but at the same time, so many other issues are now crowing the political world.
I’m not so sure about your reduced level. Maybe it’s a geographical issue, but, I sense that bashing is alive and well in the US South and Southwest (red States).
Fred, the level is really a reflection of the news / media / pop culture level of French Bashing. Sorry to hear about the level in the Red States, that will probably take forever …
Marc — Miquelon’s mission is by no means finished; the war is over, the reconstruction begins — and that’s the hardest part! Now we need a less belligerent, but more proselitist attitude, don’t you think?
[…] is practiced by the likes of Howard Stern and talk radio. It also includes Leno but it seems Marc has been successful in shutting him up. ‘Low‘ means the bashing activity is reserved to racist hate sites […]
I attended a course of introduction to American Civilization last fall at the university of Oslo.
As we were discussing about Rupert Murdoch (and Fox News), I mentioned he is a “republican”: “he dislikes the Queen of England… and the French”. My teacher replied: “like everyone”. She’s Norwegian!!! Too much American culture in her head or what?
I was stunned, so I feigned a laugh. I’ll be better prepared next time…
You may want to take a look at this one:
http://www.slate.com/id/2211640/
The author is a well know columnist for Le Monde and now Slate.fr.
Note the French title is pretty different from the translation’s (the article itself doesn’t matter). I left a few remarks in their forum, actually quoting you, I hope you don’t mind…
Webb site “From the Martian Desk” was a very refreshing writeup. I’d love to e-mail this around, but I haven’t a clue of how to send it. I just keep telling people to lookup “Miquelon”.
Thanks for the traffic ! Things are getting sleepy here.
Since we’ve put Freddy the Freedom Fry on hold – I love him btw, maybe we should look into a Truth Commission 🙂
I believe that France has a very clear claim and I wonder why this is even an issue. The Treaty gave France control all fishing rights and control over the area required for support of the local population. This included the area to the south and southeast of the islands to the “banks”. Being an old geographer, I mapped the area in 1968 (college project) and assumed that France ruled a fairly large area, to inclued the area in dispute.
Bonjour à tous,
Je vis et travaille en Angleterre depuis 10 ans et je suis depuis longtemps un lecteur de Miquelon et de Superfrenchie. J’ai été souvent offensé de ce que l’on peut trouver dans la presse britannique sur tout ce qui est Français; les stéréotypes, les mesquineries et j’en passe. Mais la plupart proviennent de tabloids comme tout ce qui est “Daily”, “Sunday” “Mail” ou autres niaiseries avec des footballers, des insultes contre les métèques (tout ce qui n’est pas Anglais) et des filles aux seins nus. Jusque là ça va parce que franchement, lorsque ça vient d’aussi bas … Mais il y a quelques semaines en voulant effacer My briefcase, comme Yahoo le suggerait je suis tombé sur une lotterie à la carte verte. Et bien toutes les personnes representees avaient un nom bien de chez eux (genre Duponoff pour le Russe) et j’imagine inoffensifs; mais la candidate française s’appelait Pétain de son nom de famille. Est-ce que je suis le seul à être tombé dessus?
Je ne crois pas que le Russe se soit appelé Staline ou l’Africaine Bokassa. Pétain n’est pas un nom très courant en France et je crois qu’il s’agit de délibérément insulter les Français. J’aimerais me tromper, mais je crois qu’il ne faut pas laisser passer une énormité pareille et s’il s’agit d’une simple erreur, en informer les personnes concernées afin qu’elles puissent la corriger. A tout hasard, voici l’adresse : url:(http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/w0203988/lst?&.dir=/Mail+Attachments&.src=bc&.view= Je ne suis pas certain que lelien soit toujours valable, je l’ai mis à tout hasard. Merci pour votre travail et continuez aà veiller au grain.
Cordialement,
SavinienHercule
J’ai fait un copier/coller qui du mal tourner. Tout ce qui est compris entre “est ce que je suis le seul a être tombé dessus” et “Je ne crois pas que le Russe”, n’a rien à faire là. Malheureusement je ne sais pas corriger, c’était mon premier post. Navré
The transferrance of Anti-French sentiment as expressed in the USA between 2003 and 2007 is almost complete in this affair, demonstrating the trickle-down hatred model of popular culture jamming by ex-US officials.
Miquelon, I have been reading your provided links and, I must say, they certainly are testy up North! I have always loved Canada and I really do admire their people, but, I wish they would not dignify their point of view with insults. It’s the same everywhere, a few weak minds hurt the image of a whole, otherwise grand, people.
Fred Orth – wow fascinating. You mapped the area for IGN or just for your project ? 1968, that was one year after De Gaulle gave Elf Aquitaine permits to drill – a purely political stance.
I can relay to that. I was living in San-francisco, right before the rise of dark ages in 2000 election, and I never heard french bashing that time, nor perceived animosity from the locals wasp community.
After the 2003 debate I was just settling down in Ireland, and I still can remember the french bashing starting right with the opposition of the french to the Anglo-American pathetic pissing contest in Irak.
It started in Sky news, english broadcast, and was all over interview and press conference given by neoconist like rumfield and its idiotic peers.
It remains me of the anti-french bashing that took place in germany in the 30”, and which ultimatly lead to the 2nd wold war. The parrale you can draw between Nazi Germany and Neoconist USA is that for example all reference to the peace movement in France illustrated by the “la grande illusion”, a reference to the stupidity of war, and the peacefull nature of simple people, where bared form entering Germany, and labelled by the nazi, as Ennemi movie no 1.
In teh same time, back to the post-2003, many french writters, movies had a very hard time being showed in the USA.
But most alarming of all, is the inclination from all American to give into that french bashing.
I think mostly, it was caused self-denial and fear.
What we can hope for, is that the USA will loose for good its hegenomy, and that it will increasingly step further in deline.
I used to love the USA before 2003, but I despise it nowadays, and do not trust it anymore, not because of the french bashing, but becuase it try to silence the voice of liberty and raison in the name of democracy and freedom.That shows a great deal about this country and how it cannot be trusted anymore.
It’s time we, as continental European end our tolerance of the USA, and start governing without the meddling of USA.
Anyway, for what I see in Shanghai ( I’m running a company there), is that of all expatriates there, most of the Americans I see work either as English Teacher or for big corporation, I’ve been here 5 years and met only 2 American entrepreneurs, but countless entrepreneur of french nationality, starting their business here.
So much for the much self acclaimed American Entrepreneurial Spirit.
Hi Jean (2009-04-02 17:04)
When you were in Ireland, were the people in Ireland as hostile as in England? Last time I checked, Ireland was (read: tried to stay) neutral during WWII, so I believe the ‘cheese-eating surrender monkeys’ stereotype probably never caught on there unlike England, where French-bashing has become a cultural norm. Did the Irish press post any insulting articles to demean the French like the UK press did?
I just want to know. Thanks.
Controversial is a good thing. Bill thinks, and the challanges that he puts forth makes his audiance think. In his own way, Bill is like Will Rogers of the 1930’s.
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