South Park’s French Bashing Explored.
The world of cartoons is a powerful way to get out any message you could never achieve with traditional actors or more conventional means. Much like Aesop’s fables, the use of animated characters often serves as a vehicle for political and social satire that avoids serious scrutiny. After all, it’s just a cartoon right?
The Simpsons, Family Guy, King of the Hill and South Park have all achieved success through poking fun at our collective hypocrisies or our contradictions. Unfortunately, when empowered with such a potent vehicle, the creative teams behind these cartoons sometimes let their own prejudices show through.
The Simpsons famously entered the fray of Anti-French prejudice with several barbs, most notably the “Cheese eating surrender monkey” epithet spoken by Groundskeeper Willie in an episode aired on April 30, 1995. In another episode, the character Lenny is also used as a vehicle for Anti-French stereotypes: “I’m shaking like a French soldier!”. Anti-French prejudice from the Simpsons is also evident in licensed games such as “Medal of Homer” (See note 1).
Matt Groening disputed his association with that now famous Anti-French slur: “That was not the original context. It was all about Willie yelling at students in a French class. People took that expression out of context (…) Besides I adore France, to be associated with this was insulting” (See note 2). Given the Simpsons long record of Anti-French attitudes, Matt Groening’s comments can only be considered as pure hypocrisy. But enough with this antiquated series that overstayed its welcome 6 years ago.
Last Wednesday, South Park aired an episode ripped from the headlines that deals with Somali pirates. At one point a French crew surrenders to children wielding toys. In another scene, another characters exclaims: “they were French so of course they surrendered immediately”.
South Park’s late foray into the world of French Bashing is not only regrettable, it proves once more that anti-French prejudice is so entwined in American pop-culture that it will take monumental efforts on our behalf to undo the harm done by years of laissez-faire.
In the meanwhile, little can be done with our limited means. We can however let the creators of South Park know how we feel with it comes to mocking the most tragic event of our recent history or we can also share our opinions with the myriad of bloggers, writers, columnists out there who are applauding this new Anti-French jab like circus seals.
(1) Miquelon.org article on Medal of Homer
(2) Source: Interview with Erwan Cario, July 25th 2007
Related links
- South Park Episode 7, season 13 “Fatbeard”
- Entertainement Weekly by Ken Tucker who thinks this is a “funny depiction of the French as pretentious cowards”
- AvClub.com – tv.ign.com
See? Turn the joke at them and they cry foul!
(“Big” words too…)
Hahahah! I tell ya, these folks from over the pond are truly sumpthin!
realize you are saying Ameicans, especially our military, are stupid. But bomb a wedding? What’s that about?
It’s about several notorious incidents in which traditional Iraqi weddings, which involve people shooting in the air in celebration, were bombed by the U.S. Air Force thinking it was a concentration of militiamen.
Here ya go: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3730423.stm
Enjoy!
Wayne, let’s not start talking about “backsides”, OK? Not remotely very polite or respectful, if you see what I mean…
But my good Sir, if you care to re-visit your post, you will notice that it was you who went the extra length explaining why you weren’t <i>”getting it”</i>… I did make light of your own predicament but that’s in keeping with the spirit of your own post, to wit:
“You know around here sophistication is on the level of somewhere around Dancing with the Stars. “
Wayne, I think there is a slight misunderstanding here. The French can laugh at themselves, no problem.
What we have a problem with here is the perpetuation of a very offensive and unfair stereotype; i. e that the French are cowards.
The French being cowards has become an undisputed and widely accepted fact by many.
About a month ago I returned home from a 3 month French teaching assistantship program at a public high school in California and I was appalled at the replies I got from those kids when I asked them what they knew about French history. I’ll spare you the details but let’s just say that the word surrender came up a lot.
And it was no joke to those kids I assure you.
So I’m sorry if we come up as humorless twats when we get offended by those surrender jokes but with 1.6 million French soldiers buried in France from last century’s wars, we still gonna take offense and take the time to challenge that ugly stereotype thank you very much.
If it comes down to a choice between being called a humorless prick and a coward I know what I’m gonna choose.
And please don’t pretend that the lame (sorry guys) “American jokes” we have come up with here even come close to being as offensive as the French surrender jokes whose abuse by right wingers to ridicule the French during the run up to the Iraq War is certainly no coincidence. Those guys wanted to hurt the French.
Do not insult our intelligence.
Barney, your point is elegantly presented. Thank you. I might add that it is outrageous to insult survivors of Rwanda, Cambodia, Armenia, etc. Any time mankind suffers loss and harm, in the cause of being free, is not humor, it is disaster.
““How many Americans does it take to defend a skyscraper? No idea, it’s never been tried!”
Lol! I bet Americans will go amok if that sort of ‘joke’ is circulated in cyberspace.”
You’re all a bunch of horrible people, and you Hillblogger are one of the worst. You cry and cry about a stupid joke on South Park yet you circulate these offensive jokes and “Lol!” This is nothing new, I have seen you do it plenty of times before. Of course your innocent because you don’t agree with it your only “passing it along to see how it makes us feel” but your aim is to make us feel bad. You paint Americans with a large brush, you blame us all for South Park’s silly jokes (add the french to the long line of blacks, gays, jews, arabs, canadians, americans, etc. to be made fun of). You are overly sensitive and apparently only think the French matter. You are a hypocrite who does not deserve their goal. For if you are a participant in America bashing , do you in all sincerity think you’re in a position to cry about French bashing?
Jane, I find those “jokes” in very bad taste, and so do their authors. You must not take those posts – as we say in French – “au premier degré”. These so-called jokes were made to prove a point : things are different when the tables are turned.
I do not approve of these jokes, and as clearly stated above the comment section, all coments are the responsbility of their respective authors, but I fully understand the point that is being made here. Take any so-called joke that was told about the French or France by State Governors, Columnists, Congressmen, Senators, Journalists, Comedians, Writers and change it around to an Anti-American joke, and will immediately see things differently.
You can at least agree with that.
You know after reading comments after my last entry I considered argueing back. But then I thought to myself, the reason I do this in the first place are many. Talking to other people around the world can provide you with many prospectives you’ve never considered. It can enrich my understanding of the world and hopefully provide an opportunity to make some friends along the way. But the main reason (and I’ll be honest) is it’s fun. Sometimes you will encounter some negative discussions but I try to avoid them for the most part. I accept from the beginning that I’m not going to change the world and the best I can hope for is to shed some light on something a person has never seen before, learn something myself, and hopefully laugh and make someone laugh at the same time. I will be the first to point out my own shortcomings and will not hesitate to make light of other people’s.
There is a joke I tell when someone get a little sensitive about something I’ve said:
“I’m not predjudice…, I hate everyone equally.”
It’s just a joke but it does communicate that anything I make light of, has nothing to do with race, color, sex, sexual orientation or anything else of that nature. It doesn’t mean I won’t make a joke about any one of them. It just means I don’t single out a certain group and imply that I am better than them like Mr. Hillblogger has done to me. I invite a good joke whether it’s at my expense or someone’s else’s.
But as you can see there is one thing I will not tolerate during this process is condescension on anyone’s part. If you think you are better than me because you told a lousy joke about an obscure news event that most Americans have never even heard about (at least I didn’t and I follow the news closely), and then proceed to think you are better because you had to explain it to the the ignorant American what the joke was about, obviously you shouldn’t be wasting your time with a peon like me. Even after your explanation, in fact especially after your explanation, I still thought it barely qualified as humor. Actually I don’t think it even did that.
There are stereotypes associated with every group and it is easy to see if the context is hateful or humorous. In all my comments I have tried to point that out. I think a few of you have seen that and have been quite enjoyable to talk with ever since. But Mr. Hillblogger and on occasion others on this blog don’t seem to know the difference. I’ll point out one thing to make my point:
Everytime you try poke fun or make a joke, you add the comment that this would have the Americans would be reeling if we said this or see how they like this. You definately add an obvious hateful aura with your supposed humor.
Jane hit the nail on the head when she said:
….your only “passing it along to see how it makes us feel” but your aim is to make us feel bad.
Please go back and read all my previous comments. I have not told a single joke about you. I have tried to be nice and offered some humor at my own expense. The comments with the negatively charged aura have all come from you.
If I wanted to make you feel bad…, oh boy! I got some jokes that’ll piss you off. But that’s not why I’m writing on this blog. If I tell a joke it’s to make someone laugh. Obviously Mr. Hillblogger, this is why your jokes aren’t really funny to anyone but yourself.
As for your reputations of being cowards that Barney spoke about, up until now I had never heard much about it. I think you believe it more than anyone else does. You are so insecure about it, you think everyone is thinking it about you, when nobody is. Sure someone might make a joke or even believe it to be true. So be mad at them. Not at people like me who was just trying to be friendly with you.
Though there is one negative stereotype I have heard about French. People say they are condescending. Up until now I didn’t believe that either. But I’m not going to punish the whole French population for what just one of you said (Mr. Hillblogger).
But as I said in the beginning…., I do this because it’s fun. And when it ceases to be, so do I. I wasn’t going to write back even this time, but seeing that at least one person who sees I am am being friendly. I will continue to write. (Thank You for that Miquelon and Jane).
But if it continues to be a witless battle, I’ll find some other people who want to laugh and share a different view of the world. And being this a website supposedly dedicated to improving the image of the French people, I would have to conclude it is failing miserably.
So let’s talk nice and laugh, or I’ll bid you farewell.
Regardless,…, Good tidings, long life, and happiness to all!
Wayne
Hey Miquelon…, I just posted another comment and I saw you had too. I wanted to respond to the last thing you siad:
“Take any so-called joke that was told about the French or France by State Governors, Columnists, Congressmen, Senators, Journalists, Comedians, Writers and change it around to an Anti-American joke, and will immediately see things differently. ”
Don’t you realize that’s what comedians do? They change their jokes to match the audience they are performing for. When they are in the west they say those people from the east are so dumb that…., and when they are in the east they say the opposite.
Anyway, I hope these conversations turn more pleasant. If they don’t I’ll thank you now for taking the time to talk with me. But I do hope they can continue.
Wayne
Jane, Wayne — Of course they’re in bad taste. They’re terrible jokes. I’d never post this garbage anywhere else than here.
But I made my point. You found them distasteful. It’s logical, as they are indeed distasteful jokes.
As Barney points out, the problem we have is that these jokes, if told sufficiently, could pervade popular culture and become common knowledge.
Barney points out that even young children associate “surrender” with France. In fact, in word association, I bet when you hear “surrender,” you think “France”. At least, most people would.
The same kind of mediatic bashing could go the other way around. Take my completely stupid (it’s really meant to be a stupid, bothersome joke) skyscraper joke. So, everytime someone passes a skyscraper, should he hum “it’s raining men,” to the hilarity of those around him? Should kids in school draw Americans jumping off the World Trade Center? Would you find this tolerable?
Just think of it this way. Word association. Surrender? French. Most columnists and pundits have certainly got that point, and are applying it to great effect.
Jane,
Whoa! You are going truly bonkers!
If you had checked the posts in here before you threw a fit, you would’ve found that I had hardly commented on your south park show! Don’t even know what it is save that based on Wayne’s description of the show’s format, I thought it was satire… Heh!
Btw, any pillock will tell you “sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander!”
So, tell your fellow Americans to stop villifying the French through their arid jokes and I bet you your sensitivities will be spared greatly and your dignity will be intact.
Now, I suggest take it easy before you start getting epileptic again.
As to Wayne’s “Obviously Mr. Hillblogger, this is why your jokes aren’t really funny to anyone but yourself.”
Heck, but that was the idea… to rile you and to see how American jokes against the French are crap…
(Geez, does one really have to spell things out all the time??!)
Well looks like Jane and Wayne can dish it but they sure as hell can’t take it.
Thank you both for illustrating our point so perfectly.
How does it feel to be in our shoes ? You didn’t seem to enjoy it. Now imagine feeling what you felt last night every single day for the past 6 years.
As if Americans thought for a minute that the French would not be offended at being called cowards. What ethnicity wouldn’t ? The Italian, the Poles ? You think they enjoyed being called cowards when the joke was on them ?
As I said, if the resurgence of those French surrender jokes coincided with the French refusal to participate in the Iraq War, it is certainly no coincidence. The aim of those jokes left the mere field of humor a long time ago and if even South Park innocently joked about the French being cowards this time, it helps perpetuate an ugly stereotype that is detrimental to the French people and South Park or no South Park we will still protest against that process.
Re Wayne’s request: “Please send me some good American jokes…, I loved to hear some.”
Here’s one…
What does and American do to check if his matchbox is not empty?
Answer: He puts the matchbox against his ear and then shakes his head.
Hillblogger, I read every single post before my own and judging from your reaction to the skyscraper joke it isn’t just to “prove a point.” You thought it was actually funny. Jokes that are anti-french or anti-American or any other anti-nationality fall in the same bucket as racist jokes, homophobic jokes, and others. They are wrong and shouldn’t be circulated in the first place. They are incredibly offensive.
Well, Ms Goody Jane… So? You pretend now that you can read my thoughts? Whoa! What next?
Are you suggesting that I should stifle my thoughts to spare your sensitivities? Has it occurred to you that my reaction was nothing, it was so tame compared to the shit of bricks that’s been thrown our way these last 5 years?
Well, here’s what St Jane, I suggest you lecture to your fellow Americans first and when they stop being foolish, we will stop riling you.
Relax! You’re getting on your high horse is not getting you anywhere. Remember, we didn’t start the crappy exercise — your fellow countrymen did! And if you think we will take the shit lying down, you got another thing coming.
Take your campaign to America where it’s needed most.
Where is the referee?
Carton Jaune – On se calme !
Please let’s remain civil and tone down the exchanges.
Thank you !
Once again, Miquelon wins the “Good Guy of the Week” award.
assumptions make an ass out of you and me, in this case mostly you Hillblogger. I applaud people for sticking up for their country and place of origin. You however are a hypocrite.
“Are you suggesting that I should stifle my thoughts to spare your sensitivities? Has it occurred to you that my reaction was nothing, it was so tame compared to the shit of bricks that’s been thrown our way these last 5 years?”
Lets get this straight, y0u are attempting to justify your Laughing out Loud reaction to a skyscraper joke by saying it pales in comparison to American french bashing? How do two wrongs make a right? I never condoned french bashing, I am not a french basher, and do not appreciate being labeled by you semi-camoflauged insults. Your generalizations are filled with ignorance, I’m sure you would react equally as aggressive if they were done in the reverse.
“Well, here’s what St Jane, I suggest you lecture to your fellow Americans first and when they stop being foolish, we will stop riling you.”
Keep digging that hole of bigotry. Lets reverse this statement “Well here’s what St. Hillblogger, I suggest you lecture to your fellow Frenchmen first and when they stop being foolish, we will stop riling you.” You are a HYPOCRITE of the highest degree. You understand anti-french sentiment in America very little for spouting such nonsense. Most Americans have an indifference towards France, as with most countries, neither having a negative or positive view. Over 70% of Americans have a favorable view of France, can the same be said of the French concerning America? nope. The people who do have unfavorable opinions are the idiot republicans that mainstream Americans feel are out of touch with the rest of us. these are the people who have unfavorable views of Democrats, San Francisco, New York, etc. It angers me greatly when you throw me into the same category as these people. It offends me even more that you use the word American to describe us all, I am an American, and there are millions of other Americans, the majority, who do not feel that way.
“Relax! You’re getting on your high horse is not getting you anywhere. Remember, we didn’t start the crappy exercise — your fellow countrymen did! And if you think we will take the shit lying down, you got another thing coming.”
You’re only going to escalate matters your way Hillblogger. There are many effective anti-French bashing techniques. You possess none of them, you fuel the fires. You remind me of a republican who blabs about how America is perfect and can do no wrong, only adding fuel to the fire of Anti-Americanism. Again you widely overestimate French bashing, like I said most Americans are indifferent towards France..of course you’d never believe that.
“Take your campaign to America where it’s needed most.”
If you only knew how many republicans I have attacked with actual aggressiveness who are the cause for all this ignorance on your behalf, who give people such as you justification in your stereotypes.
Please – let’s stop this escalating feud. NOW.
Good heavens! The woman’s going truly, truly bonkers…. (I could picture her literally frothing at the mouth.)
OK Miquelon, I’m done “arguing” with the mad hatter because I don’t believe your site deserves such display of wanton hatred.
Hello! It’s Wayne again…, your favorite American. I stayed out of the conversation for a couple days to let it calm down some. I am still laughing at the picture of the yellow card Miquelon submitted. That was clever!
To be honest, I was again planning to make this my last entry and was not going to be too nice about it. But some comendable diplomacy supplied by Miquelon has once again changed my mind.
It does seem there is some misinterpretation and I find that my the message of my original post has long been lost. If you go way back up to the top and re-read some of my comments, you will see I was trying to communicate to you all that inspite of a joke you obviously took personally, the world as I know it does not think bad of the french. In fact…, I have great respect for them. I saw Christine Lagarde (your Finance Minister) today on “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” and thought she was a delightful women. She and Jon joked about Goerge Bush’s creepy rub of her shoulders at that meeting a year or so ago. She is a smart woman and has a great sense of humor. She and and Jon joked about something stupid an American did and no one was offended. In fact it was pretty damn funny.
Anyway, back to why I started writing on this blog to begin with. I did so at first because I felt you were being to sensitive. After hearing rebuttal I found out this is a touchy subject f0r you. So there was good back-and-forth that seem to be creating some comrodary between representatives of out individual countries.
I did try at every turn to always include some compliments and some recognition of your feelings. But again I must be honest, a day ago I was ready to throw in the towel and start believing maybe French people aren’t as reasonable I thought. That would have been a mistake on my part. I now realize it was just one French person that was being over represented on this site.
I ask you to go back and read every comment I’ve made and you will see I have not told one French joke. I even laughed at the one good American joke (the skyscraper one). Some found it a little distasteful but I thought it was funny and said so. The one joke I said sucked was just a shitty joke. I wasn’t offended in the least. The joke was poorly told, poorly constructed and relied on an obsure news event I had never heard of. But I do want to counter the point that I can dish it out but can’t take it. I neither dished any jokes out or became upset about accepting any.
Any joke is going to offend somebody. “But if you can’t laugh at yourself, you have no right to laugh at others.” You can quote me on that one. 🙂 LOL
But I do want to offer an example of how not to let it end up a way bigger deal than it is. Which is the whole purpose of why I started this whole discussion in the first place.
In his reply to comments I previously made, Hillblogger made a reference that I went all epileptic. Well.., it just so happens I am epileptic. It is an insensitive comment, especially to someone like me, but I know by the context of his comment it wasn’t meant to be a put down of epileptics. It was meant as a put down of me personally. So there is no real reason for me to get all upset just because I happen to be epileptic. I could be upset for other reasons but why bother.
My point is Hillblogger did not purposely insult epileptics. But an insensitive remark might produce a reaction as if he did. It’s the same for a lot of the humor out there. When we hear humor in the proper context (meaning it wasn’t meant to attack or hurt someone) it’s just a joke.
To sum it up, I’m saying don’t let words determine the true message someone is attempting to get across. Context and tone of voice are much more of an accurate criteria to determine if someone’s true message is truely attacking you or just some playful banter. When you can’t tell the difference between the two you are going to not only get upset alot, but your going to miss out on a lot of laughter and opportunities to gain closer friendships.
Okay, believe it or not, now that I’ve had my say, I’m actually going to challenge you to make some light of the past few days events. The events happened in America but we can laugh about them without upsetting anyway if we do it for fun…, not to demean or hurt anyone.
Two things that happened yesterday that were funny as hell and deserve to be made fun of. I challenge you to come up with a joke without being mean about it.
The first one is a low flying plane in New York which caused people to panic like we were be invade by aliens. Now I can see why it scared them but you have to admit afterwards it was kind of funny.
The second one is the media coverage about the swine flu. I’m still laughing about some of the ridiculous behavior of some of the reporters. They made it sound like the black plague had arrived but at the end of the report practically shouted: “BUT THERE’S NO NEED TO PANIC!!!!”
It was ridiculous.
Now see if between us we can make some funny jokes about this without being mean, demeaning, or hurtful. I think it would be a good exercise to help us communicate and laugh with each other in a way the brings Americans and the French closer…, not further apart.
Viva La France!
Wayne
One thing I just noticed at the top of the page is the Frech Bashing levels of certain people and programs. I saw that Fox News level was at orange (elevated). Could I please ask you…, no beg you not use Fox news as a gage for how you judge America. They are the channel of the most right-wing extremist and have no scruples or regard for the truth. I am truely ashamed to have them be an example of anything that comes from America. Please don’t take anything they say personally or use them as a barometer of American News media. They offend me more than they ever could offend you. To call them American news…, actually to call them news at all is an insult to intelligence world-wide.
Wayne,
I understand and agree in a certain measure with what you say about Fox news; it’s like associating France with Le Pen. Sadly, though, Le Pen does exist, as does Fox News, and they both must be taken into account.
So, if we had a “antisemitism in France barometer”, I think Le Pen would be one of the levels, even though he only represents the most disgusting extreme right wing in France.
Oh brother!
Wayne, please read the sequence of comments, that comment was not meant for you!!!!
And right you are! It was not meant to put down epileptics and actually after I wrote it I knew it was in poor taste. It also so happens that a cousin is epileptic.
Once again Wayne fails to acknowledge, obviously purposefully, that is only with a certain stereotype we have a problem with. The coward one. The one that spits on our dead and makes use of the worst tragedy in our history to make a point.
Other than that you can make fun of anything you want about the French, although the “smell bad” stereotype is also quite offensive if you ask me.
Came across this from a UK news on line outlet while scouring the web for news mocking the French for having the longest holiday that’s being discussed over at SuperFrenchie’s.
French surrender makes Scotland’s absence harder to bear
[…] Come to think of it, were it not for the French, the rain (there’s an odd Swiss man with a beard building an ark in Berne city centre) and the over-officious stewards then there would be nothing left to complain about. […]
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/comment/columnists/sport-columnists/keith-jackson/2008/06/19/french-surrender-makes-scotland-s-absence-harder-to-bear-86908-20612976/
What a piece of shitty title… Another media bonehead propagating what is clearly a historical lie!
With you on that Barney! Nothing coward in the French.
We fought in more wars and had more deaths than Americans would ever experience.
That France was divided during WWII is not and cannot reflect on or question French courage.
I wholeheartedly recommend reading “comme des lions”. It’s really a great read! It shows how the defeat of the French in 1940 was not due to cowardice but to poor leadership by showing some of the truly heroic (if unsuccessful) moments of the Battle of France.
André,
Will order a copy now not only for myself but I also want my teen-aged children to read/know more about that sorry phase of our history. French bashing has encouraged them to know more about France’s history and how it has roused the patriot in them.
Oh, and a word of advice: stay away from books on military history written by Anglo-Saxons.
The other day I went to the bookstore, and I saw a (translated) book called something like “the 70 greatest battles in history”… written by a Briton.
So, lo and behold! 75% of the “greatest battles in history” were in fact British battles. Preferably British victories. That led to some pretty absurd choices…
For instance, the author chooses three napoleonic battles. Would the brilliant Austerlitz be there? The tactically astounding Iéna-Auerstadt, perhaps? Or maybe Marengo, Napoleon’s favourite victory?
No… Trafalgar, Leipzig and Waterloo. Three French defeats, not ONE of Napoléon’s victories. How stupid is that?!?
Then again, two battles which MUST appear in any self-respecting Anglo-Saxon book: Crécy and Agincourt.
Once again, the choice is stupid: what lessons can you draw from two ESSENTIALLY IDENTICAL battles?!? Would it not be wiser to introduce, for instance, Agincourt and Formigny, which are opposite versions? (in Agincourt, the defensive longbow scheme worked; in Formigny, it failed utterly). But no — no French victories.
Likewise, no Fontenoys, no Denains, no Almansas… Only Rossbach, a terrible French defeat.
And then, they try to place the insignificant, minor battle of Bannockburn (Scots vs. Brits) at the same level as GAUGAMELA! Ridiculous!!!
So, the golden rule is: no military history written by Anglo-Saxons.
Andre (81), How absolutly correct you are. A lot of these “books” are nothing more that propaganda. There are, however, some honest efforts by some British academics to be more evaluative. Those efforts should be encouraged.
Allez faire un tour sur les fan site de south park style southpark-tv.com ben c’est edifiant l’ignorance et la franche flagelation des fan francais (que je suis) .Les precedentes allusions a la france ne me genaient pas , mais la je suis un peu colere …
Here is an issue I think that disturbs me and I think will disturb you more. I think it is something you probably have not seen and definately needs to be brought to your attention.
The very website which made me aware of your concerns in the first place is called reddit.com. It is open to anyone to post political arguements, usually backed with a link to an article which prompted their comment in the first place. Then reddit.com members can comment and other members can reply and give thumbs up or thumbs down.
There are certain people on there that are totally pigheaded and say things that are so one-sided that only a partisan extremist can even begin to think might be true. For the most part, it does open up some spirited debate.
But there is one person that constantly submits post that labels Obama as some sort of anti-christ. He uses slurs and lies and has become an extreme annoyance. Every single posting about Obama he starts off with calling Obama several negative labels as part of Obama’s name. Most of them which don’t make much sense. An example of this is;
“Teleprompter, Acorn, Soros, Obama says …,”
I don’t know if you are familar with what these labels are supposed to mean but I’ll tell you briefly in case you don’t:
Teleprompter: Because he uses a teleprompter in his speeches (big deal)
Acorn: A voter registration organization that was under scrutiny during
the campaign.
Soros: A famous socialist
Now I get to the part that’s going to piss you off. He has now added Manchurian to that label. Correct me if I am wrong, but manchurian means french like; correct?
If was anyone else had put this label on Obama I might not even think it was meant as an insult. But no matter what this guy says I can guarentee it is meant as such. For the life of me, I don’t know why he considers being french-like is an insult. I have no idea what he is implying.
Now there are many other reasons I’d like to see this guy booted because his comments are so hate-filled and ignorant. Regardless of what my comments are will not be taken serious because all I am to him is an Obama supporter…, the lowest creature on earth in his mind. But I thought it was time that he heard from some people that have no ties to my political system and could care less what Obama does. He needs to hear from people that the labels he is putting on someone he hates are very demeaning to others. In this case you. It’s like calling someone a nigger. This would be an insult to black people even if the guy being called that wasn’t black.
This is what this guy is doing using the term for a frenchman as an insult. A heavy-duty insult at that.
I thought it was something you should be aware of. Here is the link to one of his childish comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/8gmng/manchurian_president_benito_acorn/
This will get you to just this one comment. In order to leave a comment you will have to do a very simple registration. You know…, just your user name, email address, and password.
The guy’s user name is “redditman”
The address to the home page of this site is:
reddit.com
The comment I have left a link to is just one of about ten he leaves everyday. Every single one begins with the manchurian label using it like it is a gross insult. I think you guys should check it out and leave comments of your own. You may also want to check out this site in general. You can post your concerns and comment on others as well.
If you have any questions about it…, please feel free to ask me.
As an American…, I can say this guy is responsible for the most blatent French bashing that goes on in my country. Please tell me what you think and how I can assist with getting the word out that this is not acceptable. Until next time…,
Wayne
Hey someone tell me what Benjamin said. I don’t parley vous francais. I probably don’t spell it very well either.
benjamin, merci du lien. En effet, les compatriotes en métropole ne comprennent nullement les conséquences de ces attaques anti-françaises. C’est comme si les Français expatriés n’étaient pas compris par leurs compatriotes dans ce domaine.
Wayne, I won’t worry or waste my time with reddit-man. The user has no credibility on reddit with comment karma in the negative 700s. The guy is a joke on reddit.
Okay…, My bad! I looked it up on an online dictionary and it said it meant french-like. Oh well. Thanks for clarifying. Is there anyway you can delete that whole comment then?
As for asking what Benjamin said, I meant what did he say in English.
You know the site well Miquelon. He is a joke and no one takes him serious. It just bothered me when I thought I thought he was using a racial slur in the context of an insult. You see it does bother me when someone says something racial in the context of hate, regardles of which race he is insulting. I basically ignored the guy until I thought he was making a hurtful, hateful bigoted statement.
Seriously Miquelon.., can you delete comment number 84? It kind of makes me look stupid
Regardless…, thanks for setting me straight on that. I might of gone on and on and made myself look more stupid.
Wayne/Miquelon,
Allow me to offer a translation of what Benjamin said:
Check out the fan site of South Park something like southpark-tv.com, quite extraordinary the ignorance and the self-flagelation of the French fans (of which I’m one). The previous ‘references’ to the French didn’t bother me, but this one makes me a bit angry.
Hillblogger, Miquelon, Benjamin,
j’ai trouvé les commentaires du forum tout à fait navrants. Certes, il y en a qui nous défendent, mais d’autres acceptent avec joie d’être perçus comme des couards. Et eux, en tout cas, en acceptant de se faire moquer d’une telle façon, sont bel et bien des lâches.
C’est de la confirmation comportementale, quoi, comme on dit en psychologie sociale…
By the way, I also inserted “surrender” and “fatbeard” in Google… guess what, French-bashing got a nice big vitality boost. Everyone loved the “surrendering French”, and everyone was happy.
Except for me. I need a cuppa joe… and a Merkava… with Basher-seeking missiles.
André,
C’est un comportement franchement exécrable !
Are we sure the commenters are French?
I’m embarassed vis-à-vis my teen age son…
My teen age son who is half French half English, at the beginning said he would like to join the British Army but now says he would like to join the French Army; when I asked him “tartly” what he would do if there ever was war between France and England, whose side would he be on?
And sadly, I know why he chose the French Army and not the British Army (where long line of members of the English side of the family had served for generations beginning with the Napoleonic wars) — it is because of the blatant lie being spread around particularly during his growing up years about the French Army. But he wouldn’t answer — it was a difficult question (and I know an unfair question) for a teen ager who is half French half English but nobody can brand him a coward for not being able to answer.
Miquelon,
Allow me to re-post here my thoughts on the “cowardice, surrender” accusations levelled against the French (that I’d posted in SuperFrenchie’s in response to a commenter there) in the hope they will help similar American or non-French accusers reading this blog understand that nothing is ever just black or white.
To the question: “Where was the French military? it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”
Just to get things in perspective:
The fact is the French military was “divided”, into virtually two factions following their conscience, one under Marshal Philippe Pétain, i.e., military loyalty to their commander in chief who was Pétain, and the other whose members believed that they did not want to accept the truce with the Germans (a good example: Colonel Charles de Gaulle) and would prefer to go AWOL even if sentenced to a military firing squad in asbentia.
Those members of the military (that included many in the French Foreign Legion whose members were, to a large extent, foreign recruits) who followed and obeyed Marshal Petain’s command to recognize the truce did so out of military discipline, and for many, it was with a heavy heart. But they did it to follow the chain of command and the fact that they followed the chain of command couldn’t then and cannot be today construed as cowardice.
It is important to note that the members of the French military who adhered to and followed the command (under the chain of command tenet) were by no means acting differently from any proper military organisation; that they were duped or perhaps ‘lulled’ into believing that a truce with the Germans was the right way forward for the country was in no way a reflection on their courage. They could be rightly accused of naiveté but naiveté is by no means a measure of cowardice. They were following orders under the chain of command military doctrine and that’s that.
The situation, if you like, is almost synonimous to what happened to the US Forces in Vietnam. America, despite its overwhelming superiority were overrun by the “tag-tag” North Vietnamese armies. And believe me, there were many officers and men in the US Armed Forces who were resolutely against any form of retreat and wanted to fight back and couldn’t accept defeat. But the US military chain of command had issued orders: ABANDON!!! RETREAT!!! SURRENDER, eg., US Embassy and US holdings in South Vietnam!!!
The fact that members of the US forces (and there were many of them, generals too, and I know because my father worked with the Americans in South Vietnam at the time) obeyed orders TO STOP FIGHTING AND TO RETREAT, is in no way a reflection on the courage of the US fighting forces in Vietnam and yet they did retreat, they abandoned and they surrendered their holdings.
So, with regard to “it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”, it was (as it is today) also the DUTY of the French Army to obey orders and to follow the French military chain of command.
It is insulting, derogatory, a lie, an absolute show of bad faith if not outright ignorance to claim that because they obeyed the orders of Marshal Pétain, they were cowards.
That said, it is true that there were members of the French military who finally collaborated with the Germans. The ‘collaboration’ could have been easily motivated by two factors: (1) cowardice: the reality that some of them were indeed cowards (as in any nation, let’s not fool ourselves, there are people in the military who, when it comes to the crunch, become cowards (2) misguided principles: the fact that there were some in the French Army then who, out of misguided principles, began to believe in Hitler’s New World Order but to be fair, I don’t believe that these people who were misguided into believing Hitler’s New World Order were cowards either. The proof is many of them fought against the Allies and died fighting. So, where is cowardice in that?
More importantly, let’s not forget that there were many, many of those who, despite their loyalty to the French military command and their respect for Pétain, decided to go AWOL and fight back. Where is cowardice in that?
In fine, to the question and assertion, “Where was the French military? it was the responsibility of the French army to defend France.”, the French military was factionned… but many had gone to join the underground forces, others went to England to re-organise and to re-deploy in order to uphold their solemn duty to defend France.
So, to say that the French military during WWII (even under Pétain) were cowards as if it is Biblical truth is clearly a blatant piece of shit!
Nothing is ever black or white!
Hillblogger and André, you’re right. It is a despicable behavior. As long as the revisionists and bashers think it’s ok to call the French cowards they will carry on indefinitely. That’s why people need to speak up.
I can’t for the life of me think of a single French personality who ever spoke up against French-bashing. There have been French actors invited on late night shows on David Letterman or Jay Leno. They could have said something even in passing.
I guess the French ambassador spoke up against it a few times but it remained widely unnoticed.
BRAVO!
“So, the golden rule is: no military history written by Anglo-Saxons”.
André – On the other hand you could check out Sir Edward Creasy’s well-known essay, “Fifteen Most Decisive Battles” in which he lists 5 as “French” (technically 4 as the Normans were a mix of cultures). Not a bad record, I’d say.
“they did retreat, they abandoned and they surrendered their holdings”.
Yet I’ve seen countless jokes about Dien Bien Phu where the French, vastly outnumbered, didn’t have the luxury to bail their way out. For the story, my father (by no means an America-basher) recalls having a drink with an American adviser in Saigon (before the US involvement) who told him “give our military 3 months and we’ll take care of it”.
FrancisK (98), It always looks easier on the outside, looking in.
“Nothing is ever black or white!”
It’s funny how your own beliefs are quickly thrown aside when dealing with topics NOT dealing with France.