“Strange how the “loser” is never Italian or Hispanic…”
Oh yes, they also are the brunt of a lot of bashings in America — in the form of sordid jokes and political attacks but on the whole, I believe this zeroing in on the French has become more pronounced because of France’s opposition to the US unjustified and illegal invasion of and war on Iraq.
I agree with ” Barney has not left the building” on writing an entry on Charles Bremmer. To bring out so much hatred out of a certain America, France must be doing something right. A certain America has a huge ego masking a very fragile persona.
I’m going to send an email to Twix and Mars (and also boycott their products, a good way to lose weight. It is a well-known sociological fact that racism and xenophobia, and ultimately violence, start with jokes like this, by dehumanizing a whole group of people based on some feature. It is literally vital that we make sure these jokes don’t spread and go unpunished.
…by the way the commercial is also very sexist. “Get the girl”… So women are objects that you “get”? Is this how Twix want us to see the world? I am fed up with these people who have no respect for women and minorities, who think that any cliche will help them sell more. Boycott Mars and Twix. Save money, live a healthier life.
And anyhow, that “Frenchman” is absolutely ludicrous. You get arrogant, stupid pseudo-intellectuals with bohemian looks and stupid beards everywhere in Europe…
… Speaking of which, as a resident of the city of Barcelona, I must voice my discontent at the new Woody Allen film, whatsitsname. I’m sick and tired of Spain in general and Barcelona in particular being portrayed as some sort of blend of South America and Sicily, with passionate, tropical women and your typical latin pimp who screws all the tourist girls.
The consequence of this is that more and more “sex tourists” show up, acting rude and thinking this is some banana republic.
P.S.: On an aside note, I don’t enjoy living in Barcelona. It’s not a “nice” city to live in, as most urbanistic projects affect the “showcases” (Diagonal, passeig de grácia, &c…) and not where people actually live.
I have to re-read this Time’s article but it semms to me to be mocking actuals critics of “French-socialism” (if such thing exist) by exagerating a lot… like :
“We’ve always dismissed the French as exquisitely fed wards of their welfare state. They work, what, 27 hours in a good week, have 19 holidays a month, go on strike for two days and enjoy a glass of wine every day with lunch — except for the 25% of the population that works for the government, who have an even sweeter deal. They retire before their kids finish high school, and they don’t have to save for a $45,000-a-year college tuition because college is free. For this, they pay a tax rate of about 103%, and their labor laws are so restrictive that they haven’t had a net gain in jobs since Napoleon. There is no way that the French government can pay for this lifestyle forever, except that it somehow does.”
peamak – granted. But does this make the slur acceptable ? If the other slurs I evoke are not acceptable then the same goes for “FROG” regardless of any other merits…
We’re always in the same problem… this invented sentence for exemple “Those frogs are so arrogant they didn’t want to participate in our brillantly executed war in Irak !” I don’t find offensive… satire and irony are subtle and often use in english humour. Or Old Frog on superfrenchie doesn’t insult himself but plays with the “insult”.
Ok, I may be all wrong but I really felt this article was actually on “our side”.
I might be getting too old (?!) but I believe you can make a point without using a slur – Dictionaries, if they are to be believed in this post-Stephen Colbert world, are unanimous: the word is a slur.
I understand the article was quite favorable to the French, but at what price. So far e-mail feedback has been pretty much divided between outrage and acceptance …
Kind of mindboggling — when you think that France is trying desperately to get out of the commanded economy sick bay, America which used to deride France for what the likes of Soporito called the sick man of Europe now finds itself the sick man of the world.
Extraordinary reversal of fortunes. (Fall of the Roman Empire syndrome?)
Loo,, the article was favorable, in the general sense of the article yes, and it was a good article, but had he written KIKE instead of FROGS, do you think his editors would leave it in? Write to him at Bill_Sapporito@timeinc.com or Bill_Sapporito@timemagazine.com
and ask him what his ethnic background is and ask him if a slur on his people is okay in TIME?
Yes, the article was positive, but use of FROGS is unacceptable in print in TIME magazine, period. The man needs a dressing down! But first let’s ask him what he MEANT by that slur? Of course, he will say he was just being humorous, haha, and I see that. he was using the slur in an anti-slur way, that will be his defense. I am sure he is a good man, and meant no harm. But hey, when does this end? It must end with TIME magazine. letters go to letters@time.com
Right on Danny – and thanks again for the heads up. I know we’re all very sensitive after years of French-Bashing, the crux of the matter remains : a slur was used, and no matter what the intentions were, it was wrong. It is not only wrong because he bashes the French, but because I believe French Bashing is the gateway to generalized prejudice aimed at other cultures and ethnicities.
Btw, have just sent an e-mail to Saporito to say that his name calling wasn’t appreciated at all, but not at all, that he needn’t resort to such slur words targetting the French to spice his article.
I question whether “Frog” is truly a slur. What about “Yank,” which, depending on the context, can be used either affectionately or derisively? English-speaking French people may even use the word to refer to themselves, jokingly, whereas this never happens for such bald slurs as kike, beaner, etc.
What’s next? Levi’s running a “zipperhead” commerical…?
I’m glad you caught this one Miquelon as many people will say there’s no issue here, but, there is-
Publications such as TIME, as well as Fast Food Advertisers don’t get the fact that ‘skin color isn’t the only correlation to racially offensive remarks or portrayals.
That’s why mostly ‘white’ populous of the French and Irish still get bashed. They think it’s acceptable, because we’re not ‘visible’ minorities.
To support my point on racisim towards ‘non-visible minorities’
Racism and Anti-Irish Prejudice in Victorian England
I am haunted by the human chimpanzees I saw [in Ireland] . . . I don’t believe they are our fault. . . . But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much. . . .” (Charles Kingsley in a letter to his wife, quoted in L.P. Curtis, Anglo-Saxons and Celts, p.84).
http://www.usp.nus.edu.sg/victorian/history/race/Racism.html
jonnifer – That takes us back to the on going debate in the world of Rap Music – Should the N word be used at all, even by those who claim that by taking it back they are in fact fighting the prejudice that went along with it.
I for one, do not believe this and wish that slurs be left out of journalistic pieces. We cannot let the world of journalism to sink to the level of stand up comedy.
I agree with you on the slur. It has no place in a mag like Time and should be reserved for the likes of Frogsmoke or ff.com. But on balance, if all French-bashing were like that, I imagine neither you nor I would complain much.
#22
You’re not comparing frogsmoke with ff.com, I hope. Because Bremner’s blog, as far as French-bashing is concerned, is much more troubling.
And yes I believe “frog” to be highly offensive. But it’s been used so much for so long without next to no outrage from French people that it’s pretty much a lost cause.
I have read these articles, but I don’t think it is anti-French. It is of course superficial (like anything published by this magazine), and even unaccurate (in my view) but the use of the word “frog” is partially a QUOTATION. The author quotes in fact the common language as used by the mainstream American ans doesn’t assume it completely.
Off topic but I stumbled onto a pretty weird but nonetheless virulent anti-French blog
Apparently, the guy is such a hateful bigot (the tone of his blog leaves no doubts as to his true intentions) that he created a blog for the sole purpose of gloating at the supposed decline of the French language worlwide.
And he’s pretty dedicated too since his site seems to be updated pretty regurarly.
Featured on this site are such riveting topics as: “the decline of French in Vanuatu”
Barney #25 – Perhaps the bigot doesn’t know, but when 10 French soldiers were killed recently in a Taliban ambush in A-stan, that was 10 less people speaking French in the world. He must be very happy.
I found the article deeply offensive. The slur stands out because it has a direct analog in Chink/Nigger/Kike and the like, but really: the whole article is pieced together from the scum of U.S. French-bashing. I might recognize in it a caricature of France (although with this many distortions and misapprehensions, even that was hard to do) — but I know that many Americans will find it “truthful”. The editors of Time magazine should be ashamed to have published it.
Democracy Arsenal – John McCain engaged in the anti-French bashing of the far right because they opposed the invasion of the war. “The Lord said the poor will always be with us, and the French will be with us, too,” said McCain, a member of the Armed Services Committee. “This is part of a continuing French practice of throwing sand in the gears of the Atlantic alliance. But now they’re playing a dangerous game, and coming close to rendering themselves irrelevant.” A few days later he even said that, “Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) likened France to an aging ’40s starlet “still trying to dine out on her looks but doesn’t have the face for it.” [NY Times, 2/14/03. NY Daily News, 2/17/03]
John Foot In Mouth McCain : “there’s only one ethnic joke that can be told in American politics and that’s Irish jokes”
(1) did McCain forget his Anti-French jokes ?
(2) McCain has managed to raise the ire of Irish Americans, most notably Seamus Boyle, the president of the Ancient Order of Hibernians
A project for another francophile/anti-french bashing blog of mine. It will deal with various subjects, (mainly History) but French-bashing will have an important part.
I am always on your side. This time I must say that this article is quite good and if the journalist uses the word “frog” it’s to enhance the sarcasm. This piece could have been written for Stephen Colbert and Mr. Saporito went far with the comparison but as far as I can tell the article touches on all the sensitive subjects and make very valid comparisons. The only one missing is about what we call “SECURITE SOCIALE” or socialized medecine (when you want to scare people off)…the French have it and the American are far from having it. I am more upset when I watch a debate with Sarah Palin talking about Democrats wanting to “wave the white flag of surrender in Iraq” because I know she is just “that” far from calling Joe Biden a French and that is really insulting because she takes in all the lies and the racism and glorifies herself and her supporters as true patriots fighting those Frenchified liberals. I don’t think we’ll ever get rid of “frog” just like we call the Brits “Rosbif”…I can live with that.
The following comment was banned by our system. We have pulled it out of the spam / filtered line-up as an example of anti-French rhetoric.
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Well [F]rance is a tiny insignificant country relatively speaking so it does not have always have noteworthy news to talk about it. Besides selling out Gerogia to Russia to keep its oil flowing, the [F]rench have kept a low profile. Anyhow the [F]rench are real good at sticking their feet in their mouths and it will start up all over again. Plus car burning season is starting up in [F]rance soon!
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Maybe, but I don’t think the English would have steeped so low as to call a woman’s “time of the month” “the French”. (Makes us wonder what Paul Revere meant when he did his famous ride).
Are you people for real?? It is a joke…..This is the most stupid list of comments I have read in a long time. Think back about 50-60 years when the the USA was a better place to live. The French did stink and the women were inferior and we all got along just fine. Now with all you liberal types and gays and lesbos trying to rule the world, the world is a crap hole. There has to be something better for you to do than complain about a Twix commercial. Go save the whales, hug a tree, clean up a land fill, stop global warming, free all of the zoo animal, plant a flower etc. I am sure that I missed a ton of wackey stuff that means nothing you can do. By the way it isn’t a right to “not be insulted”. Live with it you crazy fools.
Simon is a [***]. His show [***]. There are plenty of USA haters on radio and TV now; we don’t need Simon. When WTAM gives air time to [***] like Simon and Art McCoy, I’m thinking that there must be some government regulation that requires them to provide time for numb-skulls and anti-american [***] (yes, I said [***] – get over it AND yourselves you politically correct dumb-asses)
==============================
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About Mr Black’s asinine wit – suffice to say that his quote of Patton is demonstrably inaccurate. Patton said something close to that slur – regarding the Russians, which was not very fair either. For the French military he had genuine regard, due to their proficiency at military rituals and ceremonies on the parade ground. George Scott was heard saying the insulting line in the MOVIE, which is enough of course for the innumerable good ole boy circle wanks on the Con websites.
Mr. Saporito has exagerated too much once too often, considering the state of affairs in the USA. Although the website is usually dedicated to timeless philosophy, a refreshing post claiming a “Droit de réponse aux américains” to these declarations appears in the blog (French and English version), with the sub-title: “You dreamed you were the flagship of the free world, you are only its Titanic“.
The general idea might be that the former bashers are in such a mess that their arrogance, always misplaced, is now grotesque. We are in a good position to sound the counter-attack. With one proviso: we shall never indulge into the same foul manners, not our style! We must be as usual, much more educated and controled in the surface -we must accept the risk that they do not understand that they are bashed – and hard but fair in the substance.
I am delighted to invite you to a visit and if you feel like it, please, invite your friends.
“Attaquem, attaquem”, Foch, 1917.
With king regards to all of those who have been on watch at the outpost for a long time, reinforcement is coming.
I’ve read this article and I found it brilliant.
It’s very subtle, very ironic and it’s a strong critic of the us system rather that the french one.
Irony at its best.
It needs some knowledge and some intellectual skills to go over the first level of reading, and I think some of the offended readers her did not find the seconde level of reading that was mandatory to fully understand the hidden message.
BTW, I’m french, and I do not find any thing offending in being called Frog.
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